Grisar
450
This is the area I paid much attention and did a lot of comparison.
Generally I've examined Pateks from 90s to the most current models. As comparison, I examined many and owned a few Lange, VC, AP, Breguet, IWC and Rolex. As far as the functions are concerned, I had grand complications, small complications as well as simple three hands watches. Following are my findings that I'm pleased to share with you.
1. All Pateks are clearly hand finished, although with very different finish levels/standards. I clearly observe vertical marks created by machine finish in almost all Cal. 215, 315, 330, 324 and 240, but I also see clear traces of final hand finishing touch on all the plate edges, some without full mirror effect, but definitely partially.
2. All chronographs especially manual winding chronographs are extremely well finished. Here we are not only talking about grand complications auch as 5959, 5950, etc., but also Lemania based 5070 and 5970. The most recent sample chronograph 5170 and 5270 are also included. Interestingly, I saw several 3970s with relatively poor hand finish (similar level as I find in the early 315/240).
3. All minute repeaters are extremely well finished, be it a 3939 or a 5078.
4. Finish level depends on base movement, not the complication. Thus, a 240 base in a Nautilus 5712 is as well finished as a 240 in a perpetual calendar 5140.
5. Finish level/standard on more recent models is visibly better (much better) than older models. Here we are talking about the same base movement references. As example, a 240 in a Nautilus from 2009 is better finished than the same 240 in a 5110P from 2000. The 324 in a 5167 in 2012 is also better finished than a 315 in a 5053 from 90s. Sounds weird, but Patek has kept working on a better finish quality for sure.
6. When comparing with Lange in particular, most base movements from Patek are much thinner. The ultra thin plates are not as easily finished as the thicker ones from Lange. Here we talk about anglage in particular.
7. I can't find any trace of hand finish of IWC and Rolex movements. Even with AP, many movements don't show any hand polishing traces. It's not a critic, it's maybe just a production philosophy.
8. Finish is just a small criterium of judging a watch. The overall construction reliability and beauty, manufacturing quality, the case construction and dial quality are all evenly important.
9. Well, I might be biased, but after collecting watches for 15 years and comparing all relevant watches including the very sought after ones from Philippe Dufour, I think I'd still stay with the manufactures I trust the most. The Patek and the Rolex.
More posts:
Grand complication finishing level vs independent ?
Patek making quite number of watches a year, does Patek pay more effort on hand finishing their grand complication series like 5270, 5204, and minute repeaters against independent Philip dufour, Roger Smith and so on? or up against Lange? Philip dufour on...
It's a controversial topic, but Patek basically only hand-finishes their grand complications.
Even PP annual calendars show the vertical lines of machine anglage, most entry amd mid-level Pateks seem to lack hand-finishing. That is not the case for Lange. If you browse this PP forum, you'll eventually find discussions with pics about it.
Curiously, do they hand finish their perpetual calendars?
I ask because perpetual calendars are classified as Grand complications in their website and catalogue but they do produce quite a number of them,.
Think they do but not as much as they should for the price they are charging.
The vertical ridges mentioned are also seen in their perpetual only models.
I am not 100%
But I am sure they do. Think I saw some macros of the repeaters and the finishing is good. I would assume it applies to the split sec chrono as well. I am only uncertain where they decide certain price points warrants additional finishing.
I believe the differentiator with Patek finishing is if the piece has been through first and second mounting.
My understanding is that this first and second mounting process only applies to split second Chrono, minute repeaters, tourbillon etc. This is also the cutoff for servicing at the factory where PCC and below can be serviced at various sites around the wor...
Yes for the higher end of the grand complication range
ie split second chronographs, perpetual calendar chronographs, tourbillons and minute repeaters, Patek hand finish them to the highest level. The perpetual calendar being in the lower rung of the Grand Complication range is perhaps not finished at the hig...
Patek Philippe at least...
... hand finished all pieces until 2005 or so. That is well documented in official material. I have no reliable information regarding current production but would assume hand finishing as well. In doubt just buy the excellent pieces porduced before 2000/2...
I would also like to clarify
that not all independent watches are of a high caliber also. Because the question in the thread's subject sounded like it's Patek vs all Indi. With Indis there is a a wide range of quality as well.
This is the area I paid much attention and did a lot of comparison.
Generally I've examined Pateks from 90s to the most current models. As comparison, I examined many and owned a few Lange, VC, AP, Breguet, IWC and Rolex. As far as the functions are concerned, I had grand complications, small complications as well as simp...
very detalied, thanks.
what do you find finished level from 3939, 5078 compare to philip dufour? don't know if Patek highest standard can up against Dufour?, I agree that well made watch is from all the aspect, and finishing level is not the only judgement.
The only Dufour I took a very close look at is the Simplicity Mr. Dufour wore.
Well, honestly I think the Dufour movement is not better finished, but more decoratively finished. In fact, Mr. Dufour admitted that the finish quality of Patek manual chronographs i.e. Lemania based (by the time 5170 was not yet introduced) and repeaters...
“Hand finished” is a misleading statement.
Let me clarify one thing, ALL brands machine finish. The difference is the rare few continue with an element of hand finishing and sometimes they use electric hand tools, which technically is still machine finishing. I have visited many factories and thor...
You are absolutely right.
I basically regard non-automated finishing by applying electric hand tools as "hand finishing". Maybe there are still some pure hand finish procedures by applying some small tools in very very exceptional occasions, but basically (almost all) movements ar...
