Langeholic
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“Hand finished” is a misleading statement.
Jul 29, 2019,04:24 AM
Let me clarify one thing, ALL brands machine finish. The difference is the rare few continue with an element of hand finishing and sometimes they use electric hand tools, which technically is still machine finishing.
I have visited many factories and thoroughly probed this particular point as I not only collect complications, but am perplexed at the current pricing in the market for such timepieces. I wanted to understand if the increase in price tag equates to a higher quality “hand finish”.
Patek and Lange are the best finished, mass production timepieces bar none. VC is a close second, but I their finishing less polished.
My observation concluded that Lange tend to have a more homogeneous approach to finishing, they finish to the same exceptional level across their entire range. They can do this because they only produce c.5000-6000 timepieces per annum. This is reflected in the machinery they use. Although in some cases it is very advanced, the abundance of machinery in the Lange factory is not as evident as its Swiss counterparts. There is definitely a more enshrined sense of hand finishing at Lange, but I sense this will change as the business grows.
The Patek factory has some of the latest technology in watch manufacturing, some machinery is actually bespoke to them. It feels very clinical and well organised. Patek is further along in its story than Lange, it’s production numbers are tenfold, demand is far higher and TS strategy is to expand their range and attract a new and younger audience as well as attract women to the brand. Patek built a new, high tech factory outside of Geneva (hence why they needed to forfeit the Geneva stamp). The use of machinery is abundant even in the highest complications, however there is strong evidence of hand finishing where it matters and fantastic craftsmanship, not to mention strict quality control.
The difference between Patek and Lange is that Lange’s finishing stands out more at the lower price points, but Patek still dominates the higher price points. Patek’s movements are finer and require greater skill. The 5959 is a fantastic example of this, but this can also be evidenced in models such as the 5170 and 5370.
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Grand complication finishing level vs independent ?
By: KLC8 : July 28th, 2019-17:41
Patek making quite number of watches a year, does Patek pay more effort on hand finishing their grand complication series like 5270, 5204, and minute repeaters against independent Philip dufour, Roger Smith and so on? or up against Lange? Philip dufour on...
I am not 100%
By: nwk00 : July 28th, 2019-23:29
But I am sure they do. Think I saw some macros of the repeaters and the finishing is good. I would assume it applies to the split sec chrono as well. I am only uncertain where they decide certain price points warrants additional finishing.
Yes for the higher end of the grand complication range
By: sham1 : July 29th, 2019-00:27
ie split second chronographs, perpetual calendar chronographs, tourbillons and minute repeaters, Patek hand finish them to the highest level. The perpetual calendar being in the lower rung of the Grand Complication range is perhaps not finished at the hig...
Patek Philippe at least...
By: lascases : July 28th, 2019-23:23
... hand finished all pieces until 2005 or so. That is well documented in official material. I have no reliable information regarding current production but would assume hand finishing as well. In doubt just buy the excellent pieces porduced before 2000/2...
I would also like to clarify
By: nwk00 : July 29th, 2019-00:20
that not all independent watches are of a high caliber also. Because the question in the thread's subject sounded like it's Patek vs all Indi. With Indis there is a a wide range of quality as well.
This is the area I paid much attention and did a lot of comparison.
By: Grisar : July 29th, 2019-00:53
Generally I've examined Pateks from 90s to the most current models. As comparison, I examined many and owned a few Lange, VC, AP, Breguet, IWC and Rolex. As far as the functions are concerned, I had grand complications, small complications as well as simp...
very detalied, thanks.
By: KLC8 : July 29th, 2019-01:18
what do you find finished level from 3939, 5078 compare to philip dufour? don't know if Patek highest standard can up against Dufour?, I agree that well made watch is from all the aspect, and finishing level is not the only judgement.
“Hand finished” is a misleading statement.
By: Langeholic : July 29th, 2019-04:24
Let me clarify one thing, ALL brands machine finish. The difference is the rare few continue with an element of hand finishing and sometimes they use electric hand tools, which technically is still machine finishing. I have visited many factories and thor...
You are absolutely right.
By: Grisar : July 29th, 2019-06:14
I basically regard non-automated finishing by applying electric hand tools as "hand finishing". Maybe there are still some pure hand finish procedures by applying some small tools in very very exceptional occasions, but basically (almost all) movements ar...