Comments:

Spring Cleaning my Omega Files, Part 4 REVISED Now all Sector Dials

 
 By: cazalea : April 19th, 2020-12:56










































































There are some gems here... thanks a lot for the pictures! [nt]

 
 By: foversta : April 19th, 2020-13:18
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Hmmm, these Crosshairs manual winding Chronometers... True gems. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 19th, 2020-13:26
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+1 [nt]

 
 By: holdemchamp1225 : April 19th, 2020-15:00
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Still trying to find one... ;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 19th, 2020-22:28
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­čĺ» [nt]

 
 By: Brandon Skinner : April 19th, 2020-22:11
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Those 'no-dates' are really something...less is more : ) [nt]

 
 By: mdg : April 19th, 2020-18:20
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Those Omega sector dials are spectacular. [nt]

 
 By: Blansky : April 20th, 2020-05:20
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+1 ! [nt]

 
 By: Seeks : April 20th, 2020-11:16
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Those straight lugs sector dialled omega are such classics

 
 By: JTCL : April 20th, 2020-09:20
Are they of the 30t2rg variant? Would love to own one of these beauties one day

Just like what you shared for the Reversos, these are great photos but ...

 
 By: Seeks : April 20th, 2020-11:18
the watches are even better ! Much appreciated Mike !

Love how pristine those sector dials are !



best regards

Well...

 
 By: Tony C. : April 20th, 2020-17:52
with no disrespect to the OP, they're pristine in large part because, with the possible exception of the steel Roman numeral example, they aren't original.

Regards,

Tony C.

I did not intend to fuel any controversy; I will discuss this post with our Omega moderator

 
 By: cazalea : April 20th, 2020-23:31
As I stated at the beginning of the the photo sharing, these came froma disc given me by a watch collector, back in 2002. I don't know any history other than that.
Cazalea

Controversy?

 
 By: Tony C. : April 21st, 2020-09:13
I was simply stating facts, and there shouldn't be anything controversial about facts.

Any collector with experience with 30T2Rg Chronometres can easily tell that those are either refinished or later replacement dials.

Regards,

Tony C.

Tony is on the money. One legit chronometer in this thread . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 22nd, 2020-19:17
. . . is the steel ref 2366 . . .




. . . fitted with a Causmann dial from the '90s and a replacement crown.  No movement image provided, but it should have a 30T2rg inside.

This one is the homage produced in the mid-'90s in yellow gold . . .




. . . and white. 




(There was also a rose gold model.  And a set of three enamel dials for Japan, also in precious metal.)

Omega found a stash of cal 269 movements which enabled them to produce this series . . .




. . . kinda like Patek did with their ref 5105.  These homages mimicked the original 2366, but not down to the last detal, and the cal 269 movements were not rated.  Miki J had one once upon a time, and Steve G has one.  I believe a few other community members in the past had (or still have) one as well, notably MSNWatch and GatorCPA.  One of the latter fitted a cal 30T2rg movement for what has to be the coolest hot rod of all time.

This one appears to be an authentic yellow gold ref 2366 (either 14 or 18 kt) . . .




. . . with, again, one of the Causmann dials produced in the '90s.  I recall a mention from many years ago that Omega had service dials for their chronometer references in stock until roughly twenty years ago.  It's likely, in my opinion, that dials Omega had in that time frame were made by Causmann.  Genuine service dials from the '40s must've been exhausted well before then.

The others are hodge-podges.  This one might be a '50s ref 2639 . . . 




. . . with an adroitly-fitted Causmann dial, but there's no way of telling without movement and inner caseback images.

Art

Another minefield, this reference, then... Damn, it is a watch I would love to find, one day. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 22nd, 2020-22:32
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Hi Art! These may be the Rolex "Blueberry" equivalent....

 
 By: CR : April 23rd, 2020-06:45
That's the association I'm having here, anyway. I've always assumed the dials on my "twins" are not original. They're below, with display backs that I had Wuischpard make many years ago -- of course, I still have the original casebacks that are stamped 2366-3 and 2366-4.

But nobody seems to know definitively who made them or how they came into circulation. I looked back in my files and saw that about 16 years ago (and with lots of advice and help from Franco), I did send one of these to a company called Causemann to get some chipped paint touched up -- which Causemann did perfectly. Can you (or someone else) tell me more about Causmann -- if they definitely ever made official Omega dials, why people think these dials might've originally came from Causmann vs. some other dial manufacturer, etc.? I'm really curious now!







The story of Causemann . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 23rd, 2020-23:17
. . . (and I'm sure your spelling with an e is correct as you dealt with them directly) is shrouded in mystery.  They were rumored to be the manufacturer responsible for a run of well-made dials.  Erich [log-in: mac_omega] devoted a page in his Omega chronometer tome to them.  I recall seeing them for sale on the internet, but not in the last ten years, and possibly longer. 

Causemann dials can be identified by a lack of manufacturer's marks on the back per Erich.  Here is a ZJ Fl├╝ckiger dial from a SM XVI . . .




. . . where their initials ZJ can be seen near the center.  Original chronometer dials would have similar markings from the handful of specialist manufacturers.  The Causemann dials lack them.

Best,

Art


Thanks for this, Art! [nt]

 
 By: CR : April 25th, 2020-21:59
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The chances of this one having an original dial . . .

 
 By: Dr No : April 22nd, 2020-19:25




. . . are fairly slim in my estimation, Tony.  If it's an original dial, then it has to be one of the fittest survivors imaginable.  Nearly perfect examples exist, but considering the rest of the collection, I tend to doubt this particular dial was made by one of Omega's contractors in the '40s.

Hope all's well with you!  Strange times we're living in . . .

Agreed

 
 By: Tony C. : April 23rd, 2020-03:51
Thanks Art! I am well, and hope that you are also healthy and well.

I was being charitable, and suspect strongly that it is a modern German/Austrian re-dial.

All the best,

Tony

Lovely...I hope Omega brings them back. [nt]

 
 By: =RWK= : April 20th, 2020-21:24
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Dials of unknown origin

 
 By: mac_omega : May 11th, 2020-04:22
Hi Forumers,
I have been absent for some time and nearly missed this post.
I am sorry to let you know that none of these dials are original.
And no, these dials were not made by Causemann. Causemann is not a dial manufacturer but only a restorer. He would not be able to produce these dials in higher numbers.
He would not be able to reach such high standards in execution either. Those who have dealt with Causemann know the "quality" of his work which is not always top notch...
He only once managed to restore one of my dials so perfectly that you hardly can distinguish it from an original - and this was reached in his 3rd attempt only!
These perfectly new looking dials are of unknown origin. Most likely they were made by one of the dial contractors or one of the employees (illegally? unauthorized?)...
They were sold via ebay and also on watch fairs (i.e. Munich watch trade show) several years ago - they don┬┤t show up on the market anymore.
While original dials have a solid silver raw plate these "origin unknown" dials have a brass plate and missing manufacturers marks.
For those interested to dive deeper into Omega chronometers and related dials this information can be read in my recently published (2019) "Omega 30 mm Chronometer book".
stay safe (not only from covid 19 but also from fake dials!)
erich

Thank you so much for your invaluable feedback, my friend. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : May 11th, 2020-04:25
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Thanks for clarifying the situation, Erich. And apologies for the error conflating Causemann as the maker of chronom├ętre dials . . .

 
 By: Dr No : May 11th, 2020-17:30
. . . that were floating around many years ago. 

So the dial maker is still a mystery, then?  No one has been able to trace their origins?  Fascinating! 

Art