Horological Meandering

Hi,

I wanted to share with the forum two watches that I have been pondering of late to add to my collection.

Brand: Grand Seiko

Model: Mechanical Caliber 9S Series

Reference: SGBH001

Size: 40.0 mm x 13.0 mm

Water Resistance: 100 meters

Movement: Grand Seiko Caliber 9S85 

Company: Rolex

Model: Explorer II

Reference: 215670WSO

Size: 42.0 mm x 12.4 mm

Water Resistance: 100 meters

Movement: Rolex Calibre 3187

The watches are similar in the following ways:

 

-       Stainless Steel Cases

-       White Dials

-       Date Function

-       New Brands to my Collection

-       Each Represents the Latest Technology in Their Respective Movements

-       Similar Water Resistance

-       Similarly Priced

 

The watches are different in the following ways:

 

-       Made in Switzerland vs. Made in Japan

-       The Rolex has a GMT Function and the Grand Seiko Does Not

-       The Rolex has Dial Luminosity and the Grand Seiko Does Not

-       The Rolex is “Sportier” than the Grand Seiko

-       The Rolex is Ubiquitous and the Grand Seiko is Esoteric

-       The Grand Seiko has a Display Case Back and the Rolex Does Not

-       The Rolex has a “Cyclops” and the Grand Seiko Does Not

Among my sport watches, I currently have a Blancpain Leman Ultra Slim Grand Date (Black Dial), IWC Aquatimer 2000 (White Dial), IWC Spitfire Chronograph (Ardoise Dial) and a Panerai Luminor Marina PAM00111 (Black Dial). I was thinking to add another light dialed option.  I did look at a number of GS GMT options in their mechanical series as well as their spring drive series; but none of those models really “spoke” to me.  But I did find the simple hi-beat models attractive. I also did go and try on a Rolex GMT Master II at my local AD as well, but the shininess of the watch and its similarity to the Submariner were a turn-off.

So here I am pondering these two watches.  There is no “right” answer in that they are both fine watches; each with their own distinct attributes. Each would bring something new to my collection.

Explorer II

-       First Rolex

-       True GMT Function

SGBH001 

-       First Grand Seiko

-       First Hi-Beat Movement

The practicality of the GMT function of the Rolex is indeed attractive because I do travel for business.  I like that the Explorer II does not have that immediate “I am a Rolex” design language to the non-watch informed.  I do however have to admit that every time I visit a Rolex AD, I am amazed at how the associate’s detail a watch (using the term losely) and their lack of understanding of what they are selling.  It always turns me off and reminds me of the power of the “brand” and the layperson societal status associated with it.  It has always repelled me.  Sorry, I said it. Objectively, I can see through this.  It is an excellent, high-production watch.

I have not seen the GS in the “steel” yet, but I believe them to be of superior craftsmanship. I do like the stealth aspect to the brand.  The watches pass under the radar to the non-WIS population. The hi-beat caliber is very interesting and so is the tremendous time keeping performance (how it will wear is a small concern). The simple, and oh-so Japanese 1960s Seiko design language of the dial, hands and case is quite attractive to me as well. I also really appreciate the display case back to satisfy my “Faszination de Mechanik”.

So there you have it.  What say you about each of these watches?  Any thoughts or other considerations are appreciated as always,

Bob

Here is why:

NT

With GS, in my experience, I have now owned 3 and currently own the Blue dial GMT LE that was recently released... SBGM029,(probably among the most beautiful watches I have ever laid eyes on).... with all that said...

This message has been edited by Mostel on 2013-01-06 16:29:19

Which GS references do you like and why? What was it about the hi-beat references that left you underwhelmed?

How can I explain why I was underwhelmed? It is a matter of taste. In the end, it is your decision, but as they always say, you can't go wrong with Rolex.

This message has been edited by flamenco on 2013-01-06 16:46:29

This message has been edited by marcelo on 2013-01-06 19:23:16

I will pick the Rolex.

cheers

fernando

Say what you would about Rolex's ubiquitousness, but its strong AD and service center network, means you have no problems getting the watch serviced in any major city. This message has been edited by MervC on 2013-01-06 18:34:07

 

GS is a great watch, but it gets boring after a short while. Too cold, and resale poor, when you tire of it. To me, IMHO, the GS is for the man who has tried and tasted Rolex and Omega steel models, and a natural evolution for collectors seeking diversification.

The Rolex Explorer...I love it. It is not always the first choice like the ubiquitous Subs or GMTs, and the new one is better built, especially the bracelet quality, then ever before. Servicing in years to come is pain free, from the humble street corner watch repair man to Rolex Centre everywhere, all can service it.

Both are fantastic buys at the end of the day...i just like the rolex more...i tire of the Seiko after a week, whilst the Explorer still command some love. have you considered an Omega Seamaster btw?

Best,

Horo

your GS(s) to me .... ! Pls !

But I jus have enuf in my wallet ... LOL !

Being a diver, I cannot stand the helium escape valve. It ruins the Seamaster PO to me.I also looked at the blue dialed mid-sized Aqua Terra Chronometer.

Agree with everything about Rolex and Exp 2. But if you find 'your' GS, it may bring a lifetime of love. I find the right GS to be worthy of long-term keeping. But the wrong GS is maybe too easy to find... like all watches, you have to make a few mistakes along the way.

- The Rolex will last a lifetime.  I'd say go with the Explorer.  But if I already had an Explorer, it'd be the GS all the way.  So beautiful.  So elegant.  

I'd say go the Rolex route first. Personally, I think it's a rite of passage to own a Rolex or an Omega at least once in any collector's/enthusiast's lifetime.

Besides, the new exp2 isn't exactly an ugly watch. I have the old one. I have tried the new one. There's nothing like the feel of that Rolex "heft" (case and bracelet) on one's wrist. Best stainless steel in that category (904L). It really looks the part and I think looks more "expensive" than its price tag.

Ironically, a couple of Seiko GS has made it to the top of my list over my usual JLC, Rolex, and Zenith faves. SBGM0029 and SBGR0061 for starters.

The pics on their website do not give a fair representation of how they really look like "in person" especially the 0061. I did a search over the weekend for the most "real" pics I can lay my eyes on and the GS really shouts quality for the price.

The GS can come off as boring and heck, even pedestrian, as it does carry that Seiko look for better or for worse. But it grows on you badly for some reason.

One plus to the GS watches that I mentioned is that it can have that ability to give off a vintage feel especially the 0061. Potential downside is the bracelet as I do not know how it stacks against the Rolex. I love Rolex oyster bracelets. It has presence and the brushed steel sheen is very nice. GS bracelet... not so sure.

Exp2 first. Then the GS

 

 

 

... I have had Rolex EXP II Black (surprised?), but worn several times and stopped wearing and sold it off with lot of premium (I owned it for 15 years or so).  Why stopped wearing?  Just got bored.  Hated flashy and shouting "Rolex!  Rolex" on my wrist.  Many people asked me and liked my Exp, and I HATED people tell me so.

OTOH, GS is great.  Subtle.  No one notices.  Good for business, dressy, or time-off.  Hi-Beat may be good (I admit I have never owned modern hi-beat), but I like manual winding GS.  Thinner and more handsome (to my eyes).  But they don't make so many manual winding GS today.  But, then again, today's Hi-Beat is full of innovation (I did the factory tour) and very impressive movement.  You won't regret it.  Although I prefer SBGH005 to 001...

Yes, I recommend GS over Rolex.  Let us know what you decide and post pics here!
Good hunting!

Ken

First off, thanks to all for your helpful comments and suggestions.

Regarding Rolex…

I was merely sharing my thoughts of the difference in the shopping experience for a Rolex vs. other high-end brands where knowledge and detailing of the item are essential in educating the customer of the value proposition of the luxury item in question. Whereas when it’s a Rolex, none of this is necessary due to the long established luxury brand cachet and typical customer profile.  I just like buying watches from people who like watches and know something about horology. I can see past all this at the item in question. The real issues that I need to think about relate to living with a Cyclops magnifier which I do not like.  The solid case back and lack of a bracelet micro-adjust were really just observations/comments and not “deal breakers”. The watch was beautifully made, easy to operate and clear to read. I get it…

Regarding Grand Seiko…

I did do a bit more looking around their Japanese website and noted that there were many more models available than there were on the US/International Site (no surprises). I am really only interested in their mechanical watches (hand wound, automatic and automatic hi-beat).  They have many models that are not on the US site.  Many are smaller than I am looking for (e.g. 37-38 mm).  39-40 mm watches are of interest given the sportier nature that I seek.

www.seiko-watch.co.jp

These two models show up on the Japan only site and are similar to the SBGM029 (blue dial) but also have normal rotors which does not obscure the movement like in the Anniversary model which I actually prefer.

 

SBGM025 (White GMT, Japan Only)

39.4 x 14.1 mm

Cailber 9S66

 

SBGM027 (Black GMT, Japan Only)

39.4 x 14.1 mm

Cailber 9S66

 

Other US GS models that interest me aside from the SBGH001 are:

 

SBGH005 (Black, Hi-Beat)

40.2 x 13.0 mm

Caliber 9S85

 

SBGM023 (White GMT)

39.5 x 13.7 mm

Caliber 9S65

 

 

 

 

... ask me for help if you are interested in Japan only models.  I would be always more than happy to help fellow PuristS....  Understand that SEIKO is in the process of expanding GS availability as well as service centers globally, so in the long run, you won't have to worry about servicing, depending on your location, of course.

Good hunting.

Ken

Btw, SBGH, which I am attracted, too, is LE and may not be available new.

Much appreciated

I'd go with the Rolex,
Never owned a Seiko, other than a quartz wall clock, which I must admit still works like a dream even though its from the 80's. Still, I'd choose the Rolex in this case.
All the best with whichever watch you do finally choose.
Rishad

. . . was posted, Bob, but decided not to respond until there was a ream of replies, just in case someone else would make the point I'm going to attempt now.

There is, in my opinion, a world of difference between the two manufacturers.

The strength of Rolex lies in its ubiquity.  The Swiss manufacturer is a paragon of modern production.  Their watches have many virtues, but they are the virtues of scale.   

Grand Seiko, conversely, is circumscribed by the limitations inherent in intensively manual watchmaking processes.  Their total production is a tiny fraction of Rolex.  There is, rationally or not, a sense of pride that comes with owning an exceptional watch made in quantities limited by the pool of experienced watchmakers capable of producing them.  My experience is with Glashütte Original, but the point is still the same: over the long term, what separates the uncommon from the ordinary turns out to be a decisive factor in personal satisfaction.

The thought of parting with my Glashüttes never occurs.  Even though I've never owned one, my sense is that GS imparts the same level of long-term satisfaction. 

Cordially,

Art 
This message has been edited by Dr No on 2013-01-08 10:45:57

I cannot add a single comma.

GS all the way.

Cheers,

Nilo

It's funny, I have never run into anyone wearing a watch like the ones that I own. 

As Art has so adeptly put it, I do not have a preference for the common. The Rolex is instantly recognizable and there will be many occasions where you will see a few of the same watches being sported right next to you. I get that with my Milgauss, and that's probably one of less common models.

Hi,

and if it doesn't, they will both still be waiting.

... the Rolex. I love the timeless appeal of the design that will look great today and fifty years from now. It is a nicely updated classic design, you just can't go wrong IMHO. Here's a couple straight-on images I put together as this piece was on my list of watches to consider at some point.