Horological Meandering

Friends,

Since you all encouraged me to become more vocative, I am addressing one question to you (it may have been addressed before...). If you would be forced to chose only one dress watch and one sport watch, which brands/models would you chose?

I am a long time watch fan, and I owned several brands and many models so far but a watch dealer said a word of wisdom (?) to me and I challenge its absolute rightness: "Friend, no matter what you do, in the end you will own only Pateks and Rolexes...".

was this watch dealer a retailer of Patek Philippe and Rolex?!

The statement in question is essentially a load of rubbish. While many amongst us here may own only Patek or Rolex watches, the vast majority do so for reasons much deeper than those implied by said watch dealer. For the HUGE majority of us that don't only own watches from these brands, there is a whole world of other brands of there that deserve equal or greater merit.

Variety is the spice of life!

This message has been edited by radone on 2010-02-22 12:25:47 This message has been edited by radone on 2010-02-22 12:27:26

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...the premise for the dealer's comments, in so far as heavily marketed brands have an effect on us that we cannot seem to escape from, but I think this stems from our inherent desire for validation and our reluctance to stray from what is 'perceived' as the 'right choice'. However, I'd sooner have a diverse and personal collection of exceptional pieces (such as your beautiful collection) than fall into the trap of buying what I think others will approve of.

That's not to say that the influence of others is always a bad thing, nor am I suggesting that one should shy from purchasing a piece simply because everyone else wants one, but it's certainly a good reason to consider other options and make sure it's your own decision.

As for 'the end', ironically I think your watch dealer is right, because if I ever concede that only watches from Patek or Rolex will do, simply because of their branding, then it will truly be 'the end'.

regards,

Dan

Aren't professionals and specialists always right?

Afterall, the only thing in life that matters, in the end, is how much money you have and how much you can sell what you own.

How can something be worth anything if you can't sell it for money?

Don't be mislead by all those fools who keep talking about nostalgia and quality and "intangibles" - they keep talking about all that baloney because they can't sell their stuff for the only thing that matters - money.

"Soul" in a watch? "spirit? Bah, opiating candy for the stupid.

That watch dealer was right, you should listen to him, if you know what's good for you.

Money - the only thing that matters.

 

goals, it's hard to beat Patek and Rolex.

radone,

Maybe I over-dissected the statement but he was correct.

Objects have 'value', during your tenure, only to you; whether that value is in $ or 'love units'.

"In the end", that value is assigned to another personwho inherits. Only they can assign 'love units' or 'nostalgia' but objectively, the $ value is set by market consensus.

In that situation, the sheer value of Patek Philippe and Rolex in the minds, in the wallets and in horological reality is insurmountable.

MTF  (lots of tongue-in-cheek comments)

1.  To paraphrase JM Keynes:  in the long run, we will own no watches.

2.  The market already accounts for the sentiments your watch dealer has expressed.  Buy these brands and you are buying high.  (Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.)

I will not dispute that when it comes to resale value, Patek and Rolex are the kings but even then, I think it is model specific but perhaps less so than other brands?

But is buying luxury watches all about resale?  What would life be if all we are concerned about is how much something or someone is worth?  Isn't there so much more in life, non tangible on its own and/or attached to some tangibles that are worth so much more than the value of the physical item itself? Now everything in moderation of course and each will have his tolerance of how much he will want to pay for any non-tangible value he may extract.

We are also talking about luxury watch items so yes, one eye is on value (and I have no qualms about buying a great condition used piece from a reliable seller to hedge against the resale downside), but at this level of acquisition, do not some emotion and premium for aspects not related to price and re-sale come in?  It does for me but I can be off.  It's like cars... if we are talking a Toyota Prius and survived the recall , then yes, perhaps the cost of ownership and resale will key factors… but if I am at the level of a Bentley or Aston Martin (which I am not), I can see  myself buying these marques due to many non-monetary related reasons because they do so much more for me on both the tangible and non-tangible front for me.  For me, at this junior level of acquisition, I can’t just stick to Pateks and Rolexes.. I actually find them less interesting (I have one of each) for now and I realize I may change my view on this in future.

Watches for me are a personal, tangible and intangible hobby.  Its not just about the physical piece itself but about the joy and emotions owning one brings.  While I can’t dispute the history and watch making expertise of Patek and Rolex, for me at least, they don’t stir as much inside me as say some pieces from LUC, MB&F, Lange, UN etc to name a few brands with less resale value.  And for Pateks and Rolexes, owners have knowingly or not, bought an intangible in the brand itself which these 2 brands continue to so successfully manage.  And it is this brand management (yes, plus product reliability, servicing and the other tangibles) which is ultimately imo, why Patek and Rolex maintain such good after sale values.

I would quite safely say, if one if so concerned about the resale value, stay away from cars and watches in general (of course there are exceptions to every rule) and don’t even buy a Patek or Rolex. Get a Casio, put the money in the bank and take it to the grave or let someone else enjoy the fruits of your hard labor and hopefully they will show some level of appreciation before you croak.  I'm not saying one needs luxury material goods to get the most out of life but if you are buying luxury watches for yourself and not to keep up with the Jones and you buy for the tingle and joy it gives you each time you put it on and you look forward to putting them on, then resale pricing is a factor but should not be the most important.  Just me and to each his own and maybe I just haven’t had my AM coffee.

have a chance to read past posts of most of the people posting in this thread (including me) you will realize that you are not so alone afterall...

or put another way, I (and I am sure most of the other posts/posters in this thread so far) made my/their posts tongues firmly planted in cheek.

good to know and perhaps I've always found it hard to read tones on the net and seems best most of the time to take words for what they are to avoid unnecessary misunderstanding.

Can't agree with you more from a purist standpoint.  Limiting your watch choices is just like limiting food choices...........the more the better for us purists and the value (not in monetary terms) of collecting varous brands (because each brand has its own merits and attraction) is far far greater than just focusing on one or two IMHO

James

context in the form of past posts and a consistent "position" on the matter of what makes these things "important" to us.

Um...ever wonder why we as a matter of site policy discourage, even prohibit, price discussions? (as opposed to "value" discussions, which are given a little longer leash around here)

the same point of view. But nobody answered my questions about the two watches, the dressy and the sporty. The second part of my post was probably too intriguing.

Best,

one dress watch, one sports watch only? (Sort of deserted island topic: what would you fetch when knowing you were to go to a deserted island?)

Well, from my current collection, I would choose these two:

1. Dress watch 

JLC MUT

 

2. Sports watch

Omega Seamaster Diver 300 Chronometer
 

BTW, you do not have to be surprised, nobody responded to the second part of your post: the core of a collector´s or enthusiast´s passion consists of not restricting to only one watch. Or have you ever heard of stamp collections with only one stamp from each field of interest?

People here may often talk about their "grail watch", but be sure, it will never be their one and only watch !

Best regards,

anaesdoc

Your absolutely right. My grail watch has changed several times in this 10 years of buying watches. To make it very simple, it started to with certain brands, than it moved to certain complications and now it's moving towards certain complications from certain brands. This message has been edited by radone on 2010-02-23 02:28:49

Best regards,

anaesdoc

Hi Radone - I'll dodge the Rolex & Patek question for now, but here are my nominations for dress watch and sports watch:

Dress watch: JLC Master Ultra Thin 34mm

Sports watch: IWC Mark XVI

anaesdoc

choices, Thanks for sharing.

 

 Faisal

What about a dressy and a soprty watch in the same time?

Two watches in one?

Immediately, I think about this one:

James Bond would have answered this:



If I had to only choose one, in my dreams...



It is a too difficult choice, my friend... Best, Nicolas

Three fantastic timepieces. Nice choice in this sea full of fish.

It's funny, I was reading the post not knowing who posted it and after seeing the selection I've wondered who did it because I liked it.

Cuidate.

Vte

There is so much more in the world than Rolex and Patek.
A nice VC Patrimoni and a PAM 190 f.i..

GEO

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DRESS
Glashutte Original Senator Karree
Manual Wind Cal. 22 - 18K

CASUAL
Glashutte Original Senator Navigator
Cal. 100 with Display Back and Deployant Clasp

"BEATER"
E. Townsend (Private Label - Custom Built) Chronograph
Valjioux 7750 ("Chronometre"), 20 ATM

If I had unlimited funds, I would:

a)  Trade the Karree for an A. Lange & Sohne "Richard F. Lange"
b)  Keep the Navigator (but be sorely tempted by the G.O. Senator Rattrapante in platinum!!)
c)  Trade the Townsend for a Vacheron Constantin Offshore Chronograph

Regards,
DB

This message has been edited by db darien on 2010-02-23 12:17:32 This message has been edited by db darien on 2010-02-23 12:30:11

David,

     Once again, I want to thank you for your astute observation and kind words. You are the perfect customer in many ways. I need to hire you as my promoter!!

     Come back to Nantucket this coming summer, so I can buy you a meal!

                                                                                                        Best Regards,

                                                                                                               E. Townsend Wright, Jr.