amanico
[JLC Moderator]
405482
Do I really need to answer? :)
Now that's an interesting question, Jester.
What to think?
I agree on thefact that it may appear sill to spend so much money on a Vintage Pannie, but we could also think that it is even more stupid to spend the same amoint of money on a replica, like the Pam 203, don't you think ?
Of course I don't speak about the retail, but of the gery market price when I refer to the value of the 203.
With a Vintage, you buy a piece of History, something scarce , strong, authentic.
With a modern Panerai, lie the new ones, what do you buy?
An " in house " movement, with complications which are strangely housed in a Military watch, a kind of weird mix?
A Pam 341, which is unwearable, but which respects the roots of the brand, its DNA?
2 different wayd, 2 different schools, 2 different kind of clients, obviously, and why not?
I feel I belong to the Old School Category.
I admire a lot the " Laboratorio de ideas " , I have less admiration for the " Manufacture ".
But, as always, to each his own,...
I don't care about the value, as, to me, at least, the correct price is the price a guy wants to pay.
I know what is my price, as everybody here knows what price they're willing to pay.
The interest of a brand is another league, another debate...
Best,
Nicolas
Where do we go from here?
Craig's post regarding PAM26 vs. PAM317 got me thinking: How and if we, fellow collectors/fans of Panerai, would evolve, in terms of perceived quality of the brand? I'm a complication freak as I often weight my purchase by calculating cost per complicatio...
Manly, Simple, legible, Robust is to me harmonious
I find you post very interesting, elementary values? In my case what attracts me is the design, that new design, a larger than ever watch-case with a perfect legibility, mechanically powered with robust movements. Suddenly I went from 38-40mm watches to 4...
tout d'accord...
With a rich history behind, I think it's a pretty daunting job to try to come up with something horologically interesting while maintaining the DNA. It doesn't happen often but when it does, I love the results.
Do I really need to answer? :)
Now that's an interesting question, Jester. What to think? I agree on thefact that it may appear sill to spend so much money on a Vintage Pannie, but we could also think that it is even more stupid to spend the same amoint of money on a replica, like the ...
My dear Nicolas...
While I agree and I think Panerai is exactly doing what you were inferring to in your post: -#1 Developing historically correct models to appeal to the die hard old schooler like 232, 249... -#2 coming up with broader products with wider appeal to larger ...
No problem for me, Jester, if a new " in house " movement
In house movement is used in the category 3...unless it serves a complication ala tourbillon, or a GMT + 8 Days, + Power Reserve + GTI + Turbo + 16 Valves, ... LOLOL As for the Luminor Chrono, some are very nice, even if historically non correct, as, for ...
Hello Alec, I see it in a different way....
Panerai will always keep some of the dna at the watches that will always ring a bell to a core collector vs a newcomer to the brand. The question for the brand is will panerai can hold their core collectors as from what i understand the future is the mani...
That's exactly my original point
Where do the 'core collector' go from here? Do we just keep resisting any kind of complication thrown our way so we ended up just living in the past history, or within the confinement of re-edition of past historical models? Or can we start to see and app...
Just an opinion
This is a very good topic. Up to the early 2000s Panerai offered a product that was authentic to its original heritage, and incredibly accessible. Anyone from around the early days has observed the inevitable evolution of our loved Brand. Evolution being ...
To a certain extent
I agree with you. Frankly I'm not a big fan of, for example the date window, on the dial, especially those under the magnifier. Yet we still see some models, in my mind, being perfectly historically correct, yet they're largely neglected by collectors. PA...
Panerai does have some bridges to overcome for its pieces w/ in-house movements IMO
Panerai watches w/ in-house movements and complications have yet to differentiate themselves from watches from other brands famous for complications such as the Big 3 or even the Big 5. The reason why is very simple - finishing of the movements. Until Pan...
value for money
i see the point about movement finish and agree. however, looking at this from another angle, would it be more justified to pay 20K for a ROO with a common JLC based movement with "standard" movement finish or 10K for a 233 with a completely in house manu...
The pricing you're using is not consistent
Because you're not using retail pricing on both models. Full retail on a ROO is around $18k or $19k? A PAM233 retail is almost $14k. And btw, the new model Offshores are starting to all house the in-house AP chrono movement 3120, so both models in compari...
I agree with both your above posts
and Panerai 'Laboratory of ideas' watches started in 1936-1938 till 1971, (using watch-cases and movements from others) back into it from late 1980's to 1996 (again using watch-cases & movements from others), to finally from 1997 onwards. Safe for a few p...
It is true
Anthony, you were right. I should have used MSRPs for both. But my point remains that, IMHO, it is more justified to pay 14K for a 233 with manufacture movement (8-days, GMT, day/night indicator) than to pay 19K for a ROO with a common JLC based movement ...
Apparently only 3% would look deep into it
3% is apparently the percentage of people buying 'luxurious' wristwatches which would understand, appreciate and look into all the details of a wristwatch. Panerai aims to cater for their entire wide market. Of course we all, want it all. So long Panerai ...
Agree that
Panerai might still have some distance to go before they can attract the likes of high end collector who's been buying from the big three but my original question is for those core collector who's been buying vintage/pre-vendome/early vendome pieces. Some...
I don't think Panerai can introduce anything else
for these core collectors who only buy vintage, Pre-V, and early A & B series with T-dials. The only "new" pieces which interest these collectors are hommage pieces from the past, and if you take that out of the equation, I don't see anything else which w...
Well, that's not exactly encouraging don't you think?
Seems that these old schooler will be stuck in the past and I'm not sure if there's good motivation for OP to cater to this group of tough customers?
Looking at this from a business standpoint
there really isn't much motivation for Panerai to cater to this group of core collectors IMO. It's a very small group, and Panerai does still have the 44mm Historic Luminors for them. Panerai has become so huge in a little over 10 years that there are alr...
With all these re-release of 26, 28
and god knows what's more to come, these PVD/DLC are ALMOST regular production aren't they? Yeah, bring me that sandwiched L-dialed PAM9M... This message has been edited by Jester on 2009-04-14 21:36:49
history is an interesting thing
i do agree that panerai should not forget its rich history and should remain somewhat true to its DNA. however, history is a tricky thing, and i think it should not become a burden to a good brand's evolution and development into an even better brand.
True but history was the core marketing message.....
that attracted myslef to the brand in 1998, in my mind its history as a war machine tool and its design ethos are completely fused and when they try to tell me no they're going to be the next JLC or IWC with a military twist my simple mind can't accept/co...
As an Owner of a 306 Tourbillon...
...I love it, I love the Panerai simplicity on the face, yet flip it over there is the gorgeous Tourbillon beating like a tiny heart. For me its perfectly understated and functional looking day to day, but then has this little secret no one really knows a...
Thanks Chris4
It's certainly refreshing to read comments/thoughts from collectors like yourself. Out of curiousity, do you own panerai other than those w/ in house movements?
I dont really collect Panerai's
My collection of Panerai's started really as me just wanting an everyday wearer. I have never really got into the historic side of it at all. Started off with a daylight, had a sub 187,and a few others along the way, but sold them off when I moved house a...
i agree and understand fully
where you are coming from. only panerai/richmont will know whether they have done the right thing in the long run, from a commercial/brand equity point of view. but one thing for sure, it appears, is that with the manufacture movements and deviation from ...