tourbillon1
18
progress is highly welcome and supported.....
but sorry, IMHO this concept is not progressive. The discussion itself is old and I witnessed quite some independent makers removing such phrases recently from their communication because of pressure on social media (coming from the same source?). So there is a growing awareness especially in the independent scene. Sorry for my limited sight but the reality for some makers is that "Made in Germany" or "Made in Austria" are even empty phrases (without ANY rules or laws behind like "Swiss Made").
For the discussion itself: If CNC is not o.k. what about CAD (3D)? Does a drawing of a part belong to the final product?
A Time For Transparency
For quite some time I have been working on a list of descriptions that would prove helpful in defining what "Hand Made" and other such phrases truly mean to both the collector and the independent maker. Recently Independent watchmaker, Kilian Leschnik in ...
Very interesting and well done
It is true that it is a grey zone with some have the temptation to play with sometimes by letting the consumer think he is in one category while he is in fact in another one. However another question that can be raised is the following : is it better or w...
IMHO
And looking at where the original insta post comes from, I belive it was not targeted for "Brands" but rather for "watchmakers" (Cramain, Dufour, Coyon, AdC etc). I guess this was intended to shed some light on what is "handmade" and what is not. A lot of...
Transparency
Interesting post. Example: Omega’s co-axial is definitely in-house. ETA is Èbauche. Sellita is Èbauche. Handmade independent must make a watch pure by hand. Like Roger Smith and his watch makers do. An independent which use a CNC machine to laser cut crea...
By that definition...
Roger Smith no longer makes handmade watches. He uses (and has in his shop) CNC milling machines and CNC lathes which he uses not only for prototyping but also production parts. He started handmade but it seems for the sake of scaling, this path has been ...
Hand made
The different approach of how something made. The example of Roger Smith, for me it is hand made. For an other watch enthusiast, lover, fan, etc it could it not hand made. So what do a craftsman write on a dial? Hand made, Swiss made, Made in England, Han...
Well...
Anyone can produce however they want to and there are many approaches. The issue is the transparency because sure anyone can write anything on a dial and there is no law against it (although Swiss Made is regulated) but it’s a problem because of the very ...
Indeed interesting!
Thanks for sharing and let's hope that the terminology of "handmade" get a truly transparent meaning.
Transparency is really the key issue here
As a collector, I personally have no qualms about watchmakers using CNC machines. This technology has allowed watchmakers to realize previously unrealizable dreams. I do have an issue with transparency, which is why I would ask Voutilainen to remove the d...
A watch is such a complex item that these brief terms are not helpful
I’ll bet We can’t narrow down hand made in less than 1000 words. It’s splitting hairs. For example, my drill and lathe are operated by a foot pedal. Are the components I drill and turn “hand made”? Does the box have to be hand-made? Does the booklet have ...
Nice try...
To derail the discussion into ridiculous spheres. It’s absolutely not difficult to determine in a few words what handmade means IF you are following common sense and not trying to ridicule the issue. Simple ask yourself: Is the person involved in every st...
It is not the first time we cross path on a thread
And I have to admit I quite enjoy reading your thoughts. One thing is sure, as I happen to make parts by hands, no one can do a pinion without a motor (you can use a steam engine if you want, but still). So IMHO any watchmaker out here that makes his part...
Not sure if this is the right time....
to sort independent watchmakers by terminology while the industrial brands are representing 99% of the watch production. While I fully underline the need for transparancy and well understand what the young master would like to express, it just reflects hi...
Reading helps...
It’s stated on the first picture that it’s a terminology concept for independent watchmaking. It’s not meant to cluster all of watchmaking but to approach the issue of lacking transparency in INDEPENDENT WATCHMAKING. And he stated it’s a concept plus from...
progress is highly welcome and supported.....
but sorry, IMHO this concept is not progressive. The discussion itself is old and I witnessed quite some independent makers removing such phrases recently from their communication because of pressure on social media (coming from the same source?). So ther...
Like I said before...
I know I should not be engaging in trolling questions like this. I’m sure common sense is a resources that should be used in any discussion. Also you’re saying progress is welcomed and that the discussion is old but at the same time tackling these „old“ i...
At least try to read...please.
It’s always okay to use CNC or EDM or whatever. But disclose it openly. Otherwise labels and words loose all meaning. And regarding your comment on CAD: The wording is hand MADE. So I would understand it as it is stated on conscript as well. Execute the s...
Thanks for your time!
I belong to a generation who been tought to do technical drawings by hand, sketching with pencil and drawing with ink on transparent paper. You are right about CAD can't design or calculate but in my understanding the technical drawing is a key part.
Transparancy is not only a duty for producers...
it should be as well by the consumer. Oldfashioned is the idea trying to "regulate" things (something very typical german), progressive IMHO is to leave the decision with the client. There is growing awareness. Again, it has never been easier to get in co...