Marcus Hanke
[PuristSPro Moderator]
11296
There was an example in Germany ...
... when Union Glashütte produced watches with more or less the same movements as Glashütte Original (Union cal. 26 and GO cal. 39), but Union's movements were machine finished, and lacked the swan-neck regulation, compared to the hand finish (except the rotor stripes) on the GO movements.
The Union watches were practically a bargain, and yet they did not sell very well. Only since Union uses Swiss ETA movements (and lowered their prices accordingly), the sales are said to be satisfactory.
It appears that even with the logistic assistance of a "big brother", you cannot offer good inhouse movements at a price lower than Xmin. The majority of buyers able to pay Xmin will then readily pay > Xmin to get the "real thing", and for the others, even Xmin is too expensive.
If ones takes into account the cost created by the need to have two different manufacturing lines (machine and hand finish), which artificially raises the cost for both, I do not think it makes sense to offer it.
Similar, but different still is Chopard's approach to offer a high-end line (LUC), and a completely different, machine-finished movement made in an own facility (cal. 01.01).
Regards,
Marcus
Optional levels of movement finishing
Dear All, Would there be a market for the same watch with different levels of movement finishing? Would you be willing to pay more for this, or even specify hand versus machine finishing - we can currently do that for strap stitching. We already see a for...
If memory serves...
...there are a variety of folks who offer movement engraving for a fee -- the Habrings come to mind here with their "Carinthian" engraving options. PSM added engraving of the automatic winder base plate on my Shimoda as a no-charge option when I bought th...
The Independents can offer truly bespoke pieces ...
... with choices of finishing types. But usually in limited numbers. I wonder if there is a market at the other end? Art’s Omega Seamaster and Speedmaster example is a good one. Although the watchmakers don’t offer this in isolation: you get a solid back ...
several small brands offer this option
RGM offer different movement finishes in decoration, skeletonisation etc on their traditional range which use old Hamilton pocketwatch movements. TOURBY do the same using the Unitas movements. BENZINGER as well. There are others but i cant think of them o...
I would pay for premium finishing...
I would pay for premium finishing. However, I think it dilutes a brand to have different levels of a watch on its regular menu. We look at brands in their history when they offered multiple levels of finishing; for instance some brands used to offer a low...
There was an example in Germany ...
... when Union Glashütte produced watches with more or less the same movements as Glashütte Original (Union cal. 26 and GO cal. 39), but Union's movements were machine finished, and lacked the swan-neck regulation, compared to the hand finish (except the ...
I would love to be able to buy the original Unions...
but it sounds like I am in the minority.
"The same watch", I don't think so
We all have in mind brands that provide different levels of finishing in there colection (whether for the material or for the engraving, chamfering, hedging quality etc ). JLC is a good example. I think that these differences must be very clearly identifi...
Were you thinking of case materials?
There are those who refuse to buy watches that are made in precious metals (mainly gold and platinum) if the company offers the watch in steel (or titanium) as well. They feel the availability of the 'cheap' case lessens the value of the precious metal ca...
Yes, case materials.
I would accept it even if it also exists in steel. But not the finishing working.
Sounds good to me
I'm in what is probably a miniscule minority: I actively dislike obsessive finishing and consider it detracts from the basic questions - "Does it keep good time? Is it reliable? Can it be serviced easily? etc". I only have one watch with a display back an...
I am with you...
...get those basics right... then you can decorate to your heart's content. I'm also in complete agreement concerning admiration for the skills involved in the astounding finishes we are fortunate to see, but it isn't something that particularly draws me ...
Completely disagree...
I think a watch ,apart from the case material,should be offered with the same finishing ,all the time. I also think that the quality of finishing should be appropriate for the watch at hand, I mean,not all watches required the same finishing. One thing is...
agree 100% with Mo. Fo me a high end watch brand is defined on hand finish
because it is what is the most time consumming and having different levels of finish would , as Mo says, cheapen the brand. And i wouldn't be ready to pay the premium for finish from a brand which also offers a low end finish, I would rather buy fronm a b...
I was trying to write something coherent, and then I saw your answer...
Which is EXACTLY what I think. I will be direct and frank, here: A fine watch should be flawessly finished. Finished... Anglages, perlages, cotes soleillées or Geneva, polished screws, and so on... Or is this the apanage of Vintage watches? I am more and ...
It was JLC and your Reverso that prompted this thread. :-)
Hi Nico, I understand and agree with your view. Interestingly it was JLC the Cal. 875 in my Reverso Grand Date and the Cal. 879 in your Reverso Septantieme that prompted this question. The finish on the anniversary edition is clearly superior, but of cour...
I had the same thinking pattern a long time ago...
I noticed this several years ago and it drove me bonkers. At that time, I didn't want to pay the premium for the platinum limited edition watch to get the perfectly finished movement, and I liked the Grande Reverso GMT in steel for price and appearance. I...
We can go further...
Even at the asked price, in 2001, I expected something better finished. Not that it is not a very pleasant watch to see, but more anglages would have been much appreciated. Don't get me wrong, I love it for what it is, but I can understand feelings like y...
Very true...
Exactly true. When I first saw the pieces, I was still wishing that they were finished to a slightly higher degree. Honestly, if JLC did one small thing, I would've felt better. On the Grande Reverso line, they bevel the edges of the plates, but they don'...
I hope that JLC will you read you.
I had many discussions with them on this topîc... Best. Nicolas
Nico do you think...
The level of finish of the 70 eme is at a good quality or average for JLC standards especially for its levels in 2001? Why did you have to wait till 2007?
The finish was and still is good, Mo.
But related to its price, I would have expected better. Keep in mind that in 2002, it was a bit more than... 40 000 Euros! And that now, the retail is above 65 K Euros. I had to wait 7 years before " falling " on an opportunity I could not miss. Best, Nic...
Still Amongst my fav reversos
A real hefty beauty, you are right the price is steep but it s well worth hunting it. Mo
Current Omega Speedmasters are offered . . .
. . . with solid (cal 1861) and sapphire back (cal 1863) movements, which are differentiated not only by the substitution of a metal (cal 1863) for a Delrin (cal 1861) brake, but also by the application of Geneva waves (cal 1863).
Two finish types ...
I'm a true lover of functional finish (the one that makes multiples parts to work better) and I don't pay too much attention to cosmetical (the finish that only tries to make the movement more "beautiful" - something that is always debatable ) finish. For...
i prefer not, and i don't think it will work. but...
offering different levels of finishing, and using price points to reflect that, IMHO, is a recipe for disaster. SWATCH group currently offers their raw ebauches with different level of finishing, but thats for "wholesale" market. doing so would also have ...
Why I lost interest in modern watches...
I've hesitated posting this, but here goes... I got into watches about a decade ago through wanting to understand how they worked. This led to some intensive reading as I tried to get more knowledge. Then I discovered chronometry which led to precision cl...