AndrewD
[HoMe Moderator]
12829
Backwards?
Thanks John,
Backwards from some perspectives, I agree.
We all like high quality timepieces and a watch that displays some form of ‘humanity’. From the larger companies I tend towards history and consistent design as a priority, and from the independents I like to see the individual ‘hand’ of the watchmaker.
I guess the traditional way was for watchmakers to bring together the best dial makers, case makers, ebauches manufactures, escapements, etc into a watch that was produced to their specifications. But today we seem to expect our independent watchmakers (perhaps fanned along by the in-house mantra) to produce most, if not all, their components using their own hands.
But this is a myth too. Several of the independents at IGOTT2 spoke of their reliance both on external suppliers and other watchmakers in their employ. Sure, the Master Watchmaker (whose name is on the dial) has responsibility for their training and final quality control, but their focus has become watch design and troubleshooting, rather than assembly. That’s why I brought up the idea of the ‘Executive Chef’ who prepares the menu, supervises the kitchen and quality controls each dish before it is served. That seems to be more the reality to me for the majority of established Independents today.
So I guess those early watches from any of the now established ‘independents’ are the ones to treasure. Or identify the next independent watchmakers (like Eva Leube) who you can be sure are doing ALL the assembly and adjusting themselves at the moment.
So I like the emotional idea that one individual has assembled my watch, the contrast being an assembly line where multiple specialists are involved. I can see the trade-off with loss of specialisation, particularly for a larger Manufacture.
Andrew
Ps. regarding assembly, I don’t believe DeWitt, F.P.Journe or others are referring to finishing. The watchmakers are given the finished components which they assemble, but at one level I still prefer it.
The human touch …
How many Manufactures use one watchmaker to assemble a watch from start to finish? Some companies make more of a fuss about this than others, perhaps as a marketing tool. But I like the idea a lot. It adds to the ‘personality’ of the watch for me. F.P.Jou...
That's a great idea!!
I actually love plaques on movements... such as Dufour and GF...
to me, this is simply backwards
Hello Andrew, [rant] I appreciate that much of what we love about mechanical horology is not too rational, but having one watchmaker assemble each watch just seems completely backwards to me. It's less efficient with regards to productivity and with regar...
Backwards?
Thanks John, Backwards from some perspectives, I agree. We all like high quality timepieces and a watch that displays some form of ‘humanity’. From the larger companies I tend towards history and consistent design as a priority, and from the i...
Can productivity and quality . . .
. . . be inversely related? Homogeneity is one measure of quality, but so is artisanship. If the artisanal factor is the primary emphasis, then a "one watch, one watchmaker" approach makes sense, no? Is this not a case of apples and oranges, arts vs craft...
I think one needs to personalise the watchmaker for this effect
Hello Art, Interesting points you raise! Is not the appeal of the independent that the named individual associated with the brand either assembled the watch or had a very direct hand in its creation or manufacture? In the case of the corporate watchmaker ...
Thanks, Nomer . . .
. . . you understood the gist of my reply precisely. Cordially, Art
There are independents and there are …
… independents. Even amongst the independents it seems that we have a range, from those working alone in a spare room in their house, to those employing apprentices and watchmakers who they train and supervise to a greater or lesser extent. Dependin...
I'm fine with either, but attempting both realizes neither
Hello Art, I appreciate hand crafted pieces made by independents and I also appreciate mass produced pieces of honest quality. What I don't like are mass produced pieces that cater to the fantasy of independent watchmaking with counter-productive gimmicks...
Hmmmm...
John's comments somehow make sense with my own irrational feeling: I find the affixed signature strangely pretentious... I find this unnecessary at best and off-putting at worst. A watchmaker's human touch is evident or it is not--and no 'plaque' can make...
The Monster ...
My impression is that these mid-sized Manufactures are trying to leverage the mystique of the artisanal watchmakers. For something as deeply personal to me as a mechanical watch, I still see some (emotional) value (over and above advertising value) in it....
Other industries - some automotive companies
put a plaque on the engine, but very few (Aston does, some Corvettes have it) but no one pretends that a whole car is built that way. And in fact a complicated watch that takes weeks or months to assemble is FAR MORE COMPLEX to build than an engine which ...
Porsche engines WERE signed
The final assembly of the 911 engine is done by one person. That person used to sign the engine - but when I toured the works they explained that they have stopped it. With the internet, customers started comparing the power outputs of their engines - and...
I own two JLC Master Grand Taille watches...
...each is signed in the case back with a single engraved signature and the date (1995 for each). Of course, as with old firearms, it might be the signature of the inspector. Unfortunately I didn't take a snap of the case backs.
I like that a lot
and think it is another plus of FP Journe (surprise!). Both at Glashütte Original and Lange I have seen that the watchmakers get "kits" of the part from which they then assemble the watch from the ground up, twice in Langes case. In addition the bala...
It's classic business economics...battle between specialization versus generalization
I humbly opine that the FPJ way of having one guy making building the whole watch versus say Lange's approach of different staged specialization production model, is not a realistic forward strategy. Reality is I would rather my watch be assembled by a bu...
Stickied. I feel this thread . . .
. . . touches upon germane and significant issues that underlie the raison d'être of this forum in particular, and the appreciation of watches and watchmaking in general. Andrew has elliptically brought up the issue of whether the art of independent ...
My experience shows some pros and cons
Hi Andrew, An interesting topic - just when I thought there was nothing new under the sun! My feeling is that the lone watch-maker makes for an idealized and pleasant attribute for a hand-made watch; it was one of the pleasant points I noted when I purcha...
Montblanc's Villeret is assembled by one watchmaker
whose signature is the position of the Minerva arrow! If a watch is returned for service, it will go to the watchmaker who assembled it as well. Cheers, Mike...
Patek Philippe
All their grand complications are assembled by a master watchmaker in a special area ( used to be in the attic ).cheers,dreamer
i don't know if the crafting of wine is a parallel industry..
but the French language does make a distinction. Vignerons are found in Burgundy, and are responsible not only for all activities within the cellar but also all decisions within their vineyards. Of course, the Napoleanic Code, and the division of property...
a well-made watch is... a well-made watch and...
a caring manufacture will do it for me just as a caring independent would. team effort vs. individual, both with differing romantic appeal. in my particular case, barring the usual cost of entry, i would still prefer a good watch from a manufacture over a...
What you wrote nailed it for me
I admire many independents but am ambivalent whether watch is a team effort or an individual as long as it is a great product. Whilst i like the romantic notion of a single watchmaker assembling , I also like the romantic history of the brand via decades ...
"anything more ephemeral than a watch by a defunct independent"
Art asked this question and it presents some problems for this discussion. First, a well-made watch (maker deceased or retired, etc. or company gone out of business) owned by a wealthy-enough person can be fixed most of the time. We might not prefer a ref...
I like it
Personally I like things like this especially when I know the watchmaker involved, it brings an extra personal touch to the watch which is something I enjoy. Andrew
Another experience based point of view...
Hi, Andrew, I drink the kool aid as willingly as the next WIS; hell, I help serve it most of the time! But... I brought a watch from one of the names you mentioned in your post back to their atelier for service, and handed it directly to the eponymous own...
A flawed concept?
Thanks Thomas, I can see problems, as mentioned by others, with the concept of the same watchmaker who assembled your watch being responsible for warranty repairs as well. It may be a matter of training and supervision as well final QC that led to this. I...
Difference between US and Swiss ways of manufacturing....
While this may not be exactly to the point, I think it is worth considering. I have seen several examples of companies, outside of the watch industry, that took their production from Switzerland to the US hoping to reduce costs only to come back to Switze...
an interesting perspective
Hello Don, That's an intriguing point of view that deserves more consideration and a more thoughtful response than I can muster at the moment. That said, the brands that I know of that advertise the one watchmaker-per-watch production style are the virtua...
Great thread, but I think the premise is a red herring.
It seems to me that simply assembling the watch is not that big a deal. If I am not mistaken, the assembly operation takes place immediately following each time a watch is taken apart and cleaned. Any competent watchmaker is supposed to be able to do ever...
Interesting discussion...
.... much more worthy of my time than a few... anyway... I do not have much perspective or anecdote at the manufacture level here, but I have a "human touch" reason to have become addicted to this hobby and have collected certain brand and later variety o...
Hi Ken...
if I had that kind of a relationship with a gentleman watch person, i'd be buying more watches. thanks for "boring" us with this nice story
Yes! I miss NY :-(
... and that was why and how I went downhill with this hobby....... Ken
A personal human touch...
To me, if a watch movement is series assembled (production line) I feel it is less significant than if it were assembled by a master craftsman. Yes, in the 21st century, we are already in the age where master craftsmen are a thing of the past and producti...
Funny!
I can accept the signature of the artist on the painting and carpet but not on the movement of a watch - I consider it as "scratch". Andrew, thank for the interesting topic. Regards Ling