Thanks for your comments, allow me to clarify ...

Nov 23, 2023,12:33 PM
 

To help me respond for clarity:


Minerva was not sold from Frey to Montblanc but beforehand in 2000 to Mr. Gnutti. Only in October 2006 the company was sold to Montblanc.

Marc-Oh yes, for sure. I did not say that the Frey family sold to Richemont/Montblanc. I just said it was sold. I left out that the first sale was made to Gnutti as that would have taken a whole bunch more of typing on what Gnutti tried to do with Minerva. I can see how one could easily assume that Richemont/Montblanc were the immediate buyers from the Frey's so thanks for making that clear.

As for the date of the sale, I too have seen numerous articles that quote 2000 as the date of sale. However, I recall seeing a press release that said 2002. This is the reason I said 2002 in my initial post. It's interesting to note that the papers of my Pythagore are dated June 2002 ... but that of course is the date of sale and not the date of production. 

I am in touch with Beppe Menaldo (CEO/Director of the Gnutti owned Minerva) and I'll ask him if he recalls when exactly the sale happened.  I'll also look through my archives to see if I can find the press release.  Will update again here if/when I find out more.

Gnutti was not at all successful with this high price strategy for Minerva, and Montblanc saved Minerva from being liquidated. 

Marc- Not sure if Montblanc "saved" Minerva  ... or that Gnutti was " not successful". In some ways Montblanc saved Minerva (as they bought it), but lets also remember that Gnutti was charged in court for other things and his entire empire was therefore in jeopardy. I do not know if Minerva itself was making or losing money at the time. But I do know that they had to rework a whole ton of dyes and machines from Frey to adjust to what they wanted to do and this tool close to 2 years and lots of money. So yeah, perhaps more of an issue with Gnutti vs Minerva itself? I don't know enough about the sales and cash flow situation of Minerva at the time to have an opinion.

It's easy to bash on Montblanc but beforehand one should get the facts right. They saved a marvel with lots of money and thought it wise not to follow the unsuccessful path of Gnutti but to rebrand into Montblanc-Minerva.

Marc-Not sure where I had "bash on Montblanc" ... I merely said that I prefer to see Minerva on the dial and that their prices "massively more than the original Minerva’s". I did say that the finishing from Montblanc is excellent ... the pieces from Minerva Villeret that is.

Hope this clarifies andI  look forward to hearing back from you. It will be interesting to combine our research and discuss further ... as some parts of Minerva to Gnutti to Richemont ownership are a little bit sketchy at times.

Best wishes from Singapore.

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Minerva 38 mm Pythagore

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 22nd, 2023-16:32
I quite like this Minerva 38 mm Pythagoremanual wind. Simple, thin and comfortable on the wrist. I use it more on the Minerva bracelet than I do the ostrich strap because of the weather in Singapore. This pieces was made in 2002. Just before Minerva was s...  
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Yes, things have changed considerably… those were wonderful times!

 
 By: j.jota : November 22nd, 2023-16:37
Will Montblanc service the Frey era vintage pieces like your wonderful example?
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Thanks JJ

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 22nd, 2023-16:54
Yes, MB will service it if ever needed. NEO-vintage pieces like this hold so much intrigue for me. The 1990s was the golden age for Swiss watch making. Glad to see more awareness of this these days. Some folks think NEO-vintage is the same as vintage … bu... 
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No +1s to agree this time. (nt)

 
 By: Ronald Held : November 23rd, 2023-17:23
NT
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Very nice - true under the radar watch

 
 By: jml_watches : November 22nd, 2023-17:10
If you know, you know. Cheers JML
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Agree bro. There is a very

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-07:08
short period of time when Minerva was still independent and run by the Frey family and the watches had display casebacks. Circa 1999 to 2002. The case diameter sizes ranged from 34 mm to 38 mm.
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Love the two-tone and the bracelet...

 
 By: mdg : November 22nd, 2023-17:20
...this is the kind of thing that IWC should be making...
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Thanks. Agree sometimes less is

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-07:11
More. The Minerva brand name certainly helps too. I like 2-tone as well. Not for everyone but as I get a bit older and more confident in my collecting, I find that some level of variety within the collection is nice.
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Very nice

 
 By: TeutonicCarFan : November 22nd, 2023-18:16
I'd love a nice pythagore
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Must dig around on c24 and such

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-08:17
They are rare birds but come up from time to time.
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No GP but a nice Minerva for a change😁

 
 By: hora12reborn : November 22nd, 2023-18:54
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Ha ha yes, no GP this time.

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-08:19
Good to mix it up. ☀️
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A nice story as bonus

 
 By: Weems@8 : November 22nd, 2023-20:53
While your Pythagore have a lot of things i do not look for, it belongs to u. … there are Minerva watches that have a lot i look for. Every Minerva is rare i guess. I spotted sometimes online Pythagore models that have the right specifications i look for,... 
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I agree Weems. I echo your sentiment.

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-08:22
I’m not that keen on Montblanc because they don’t put Minerva on the dial. The finishing is excellent … the prices are massively more than the original Minerva’s. So I go for the Minerva before they were sold. What are the specs you typically look for? ... 
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Nice. The 38 mm are a good size

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-08:16
And the aviator is good one too 👍🏻
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Here are a few pics of my 38mm pythagore pilot

 
 By: frnkvizr : November 24th, 2023-19:59
Here are a few pics of my 38mm minerva pythagore pilot. I wear it on a Molequin alligator strap. ...  
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Lovely

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 25th, 2023-12:30
Thanks for sharing☀️👍🏻
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Superb. I should hunt one.

 
 By: amanico : November 23rd, 2023-05:33
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If anyone can find it’s it’s you 👍🏻🫡

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-08:13
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:)

 
 By: amanico : November 24th, 2023-07:47
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Nice watch you have but also lots of wrong information in your posts

 
 By: penfriend : November 23rd, 2023-08:51
Minerva was not sold from Frey to Montblanc but beforehand in 2000 to Mr. Gnutti. Only in 2006 the company was sold to Montblanc. Mr. Gnutti tried to transform Minerva into a luxury brand with grand complications and also high prices. For this reason he h...  
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Thanks for your comments, allow me to clarify ...

 
 By: Marc_Personal : November 23rd, 2023-12:33
To help me respond for clarity: Minerva was not sold from Frey to Montblanc but beforehand in 2000 to Mr. Gnutti. Only in October 2006 the company was sold to Montblanc. Marc-Oh yes, for sure. I did not say that the Frey family sold to Richemont/Montblanc... 
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Thanks for your insights

 
 By: penfriend : November 23rd, 2023-14:06
and this article is in depth on which was done before Gnutti had to sell to Richemont: www.ornatus-mundi.ch One of my better friends is the at that time CEO from Montblanc, so my knowledge is based also on his explanations. I guess your watch was ... 
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Quick update … Beppe just

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-14:31
confirmed that they (Gnutti) bought Minerva from the Frey family in November 2000. So you and the articles are correct. I will still try to find the press release I read to see how I derived 2002 from it. Thanks very much 🙏
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Thanks … this article

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 23rd, 2023-15:11
By Magnus is excellent and one that I have referred to many times in the past. 👍🏻 Almost 20 years has come and gone so quickly. I really like some of the Gnutti pieces. Flamboyant dials with excellent finishing on the movements. I wonder if they made the ... 
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I have the same as yours.

 
 By: Boris : November 24th, 2023-03:42
But I don't have the bracelet. I resolved the issue of the hot and humid HK climate by ordering a custom ostrich strap with rubber lining from Camille Fournet. Works really well, you should consider it. Also, mine has a swan neck regulator, which I unders... 
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Thanks Boris. I’ll certain consider

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 24th, 2023-04:55
The rubber lining option. Yes, from what I understand, the American version have the swan neck. The ones for Europe did not have it. Also, from what I have read, the original Pythagore did not have the swan neck regulator. Therefore, some purists say with...  
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No idea about the production numbers.

 
 By: Boris : November 25th, 2023-01:01
But seeing how small the Minerva operations were under the Frey family management, it can't be more than a few thousands across all years and all 3 dials variations of the Pythagore II. I love that other dial variation you posted, very Bauhaus in style. I...  
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You wear it well Boris ☀️

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 25th, 2023-12:38
I think much mess than a few thousand made of this model. Maybe a hundred or two hundred Naznim Yes agree, the “blue hands” version is superb and definitely has a bauhausian elements to it. Clean and minimalist features. It’s interesting that this model i... 
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Optional

 
 By: Dje : November 27th, 2023-19:42
At the time the swan neck was optional. It was nearly possible to customize any model on order. I chose a swan neck, a brushed case, a déployant buckle, a high quality croco strap and a rectangular watch box, all different from regular models.
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Thanks wonderful to be able to customise

 
 By: SingaporeMarc : November 28th, 2023-04:09
Back in the day. I read that the Frey’s really treasured their collectors and had a good down to earth relationship with them. Which Minerva did you get? Have some wrist shots to share ? Thanks
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