Guilloche dials

Nov 17, 2013,07:44 AM

Morning all,

Hope you're enjoying a great weekend.  I'm turning to the forum for a bit of help in the vintage world.  I'd like to know when Cartier started using guilloche on their dials and whether it was done in-house or supplied to them by a dial manufacturer.  Were there different dial manufacturers that delivered perhaps better quality dials, hand done guilloche?   

This has come about because I'm interested in buying a '40s - '60s vintage piece and am doing a bit of research.  

I'd very much like to find a Tank and/or Tonneau in platinum with guilloche dial, Breguet hands and a Jaeger or AP movement.  Does such a thing exist?  And if so does anyone know a ref number(s) and better yet does anyone have photos they can share?  

Also, I know that the European Watch and Clock Company was supplying movements but I've recently seen a movement in an auction catalog written as International Watch and Clock Co.  Is this perhaps a mistake or is this another company?

To that end, why are EWC movements so sought after by collectors?  Are they robust calibers or just something that is part of Cartier's history and thus desirable from a standpoint outside of their technical soundness?

Finally, I saw a platinum Tank from the '40s but it comes with a deployant clasp in pink and white gold...could this be original?  When would Cartier have begun using such a clasp system?  

Whatever you all can tell me is terrific, thanks very much for your help, I'm looking forward to hearing from everyone.  Have a terrific day, speak soon.


PHOTO ADDED by Editor for dial illustration

This message has been edited by MTF on 2013-11-22 02:02:22

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Too many questions about Cartier, you have

 By: MTF : November 18th, 2013-16:06
cgreen, You have too many questions for any one person to answer. When did Cartier start using guilloche on their dials and whether it was done in-house or supplied to them by a dial manufacturer. Guilloche predates watchmaking and wristwatches have been ... 

Wow! Thank you!

 By: cgreen : November 19th, 2013-18:36
MTF, Thank you very much for your response, this information is tremendously helpful. I've emailed Cartier NA to inquire about this particular piece and will get back to you with the results. The movement and inside case back are signed EWC. I knew they m... 

Clarification about EWC

 By: MTF : November 19th, 2013-20:14
cgreen, Just to clarify. The original EWC made movements for Cartier for export. I believe Cartier New York encased themselves to avoid tax on fully assembled watches imported into USA. I've seen watches in UK also marked EWC movement but I'm not sure if ... 

Thank you again/Louis Cartier

 By: cgreen : November 20th, 2013-06:18
Thank you again MTF, great information. I read that once Louis Cartier passed away in the early 1940s the company sort of took a turn, (that his artistic vision was what really drove the company forward) is that true? In looking to acquire a vintage Carti... 

Rumours and Hear-say

 By: MTF : November 20th, 2013-06:39
cgreen, The heart wants what the heart wants....... I cannot advice on the aesthetic choice between 1920s and 1940s vintage Cartier watches. My comment would be about condition, spare parts and remnant authenticity. As watches get older, all three of thos...  

Newer vs older

 By: cgreen : November 20th, 2013-06:47
I do appreciate that parts are becoming harder to come by with the very old pieces. I was recently advised of the same problem by the folks at Patek when inquiring about a 1960s piece. Just the same, I've always liked the older pieces and would like to pu... 

What about the Santos?

 By: cgreen : November 21st, 2013-19:23
MTF, Thanks again for all of your assistance with everything, I sincerely appreciate it. I have a question about the Santos Dumont, particularly the limited edition piece in platinum from 1994. Who would have made that movement? Forgetting the limited edi... 

90th Anniversary Cartier Santos-Dumont platinum

 By: MTF : November 22nd, 2013-02:14
cgreen, A nice set of photos of the 90th Anniversary Cartier Santos-Dumont watch was posted by 'VPRegulator' CLICK URL link to be transported: = 1994: 90th Anniversary Cartier Santos-Dumont Platinum Handwind watch Probably the 430MC movement derived from...  


 By: Dje : January 8th, 2019-11:46
Hi Melvyn The ultra thin Santos was fitted with a Frederic Piguet caliber 21. As good as a Piaget 430, and used by Patek in their ultra thin watches. Best regards.

Omega supplied a deployant clasp with . . .

 By: Dr No : November 25th, 2013-10:35
. . . at least some of their Marine waterproof models in the '30s, so it's not unlikely for Cartier to offer the same a decade later. Granted, such clasps would be very uncommon, but the possibility exists. Cordially, Art


 By: Dje : January 26th, 2019-15:25
Hi Art, Cartier invented the deployant clasp in 1910. Best regards Dje

So good to hear from you, Dje!! . . .

 By: Dr No : January 26th, 2019-23:15
. . . and thanks for the update - I've seen Omega Marine deployants from the '30s, but nothing earlier. Warmest, Art