ei8htohms
8555
understood
Hello Marcus,
I was simply addressing the "myth" of watchmakers making parts. The more exotic the material, the less likely it is that someone will be able to re-manufacture a replacement part for it, at least with currently available technology, and that definitely includes Nivarox and glucydur. Alternative materials could generally be chosen for those two however. Applying traditional techniques to attempt to replace something manufactured using high-tech methods or materials is especially fraught with problems when the engineering embraces the technology at a fundamental level like with the dual-Ulysse escapement or the Pulsomax escapement.
A wheel is not too challenging to fabricate from scratch if one has the tools and training, but there is a huge time investment to set up and execute to an acceptable level of precision, so to do so for a single piece is generally cost prohibitive. Unless the secondary market for a given piece holds up exceptionally well, mostly they will be mothballed rather than being repaired when replacement parts are not available. Special pieces will of course continue to receive special care.
By the way, I realize now that the picture in my previous post doesn't show scale. The roller was for a 9 1/2 ligne wristwatch movement.
_john
This message has been edited by ei8htohms on 2012-05-03 10:18:39
3d Printing and Horology
Hello All, I'll be coy and reserve my comments for a little later, but I wanted to solicit your opinions about how 3d printing will affect watchmaking in the perilously near future (article from SJX): "Three-dimensional printing is an additive process of ...
Metal components aren't just shapes
Hi John, My take is that the article is somewhat disingenuous. Most metal components aren't just a shape, they're the result of a series of processes and treatments that give structural, physical and surface properties to the finished object. A spring isn...
I'm with Nick on this one . . .
. . .it seems to me that until the time (which may come eventually but who knows when) that it's possible to do 3D printing with something other than a totally structurally homogenous material, the technology is going to have relatively limited use.
Peter Schmit's clock
Doesn't contradict your comments about a single material - but a PhD student at MIT has made a clock by 3D printing. A long way to go - but it's already come a long way since I saw some of this stuff 10 years ago...
Hah, that's very interesting
I wasn't aware of this project --thanks for the picture! Jack
The Economist...
...is the magazine I'd want to recieve my materials engineering information from, every time. That hammer they cite example is worse than disingenuous, it's gushingly ignorant. Printing, as it exists today, is mostly to provide physical samples....so much...
points well taken (if "disingenuous" seems a little harsh...)
Hello Nick, I agree that we are likely pretty far from being able to manufacture watch parts or entire assemblies with 3d printing technology as this juncture, but I also think the day will absolutely come. Perhaps a hybrid of LIGA and laser sintering 3d ...
Most seem to be missing the point....
The point I make is that one day, and I say that it's pretty far off, 3D printing will be big deal and revolutionise watchmaking. As it is today it won't, but that will change. - SJX
I actually somewhat disagree
Looking far into the future is a risky game, but I would say that 3d printing will make slight improvements in efficiency and possibly give smaller makers more flexibility, but not "revolutionize" the industry. With multi-axis wire EDM or LIGA I can make ...
Well, over hundreds of years, watchmaking's been repeatedly revolutionized . . .
. . . by the advent of new manufacturing techniques --from the Leschot pantograph to CNC machines, EDM, up to LIGA and DRIE --there is no reason to think at some point in the future that 3D printing technologies couldn't find a place and maybe even a majo...
When...
...a laser scanner to pick up all the hard points of a part, a simple way to transfer that to the appropriate file and a way to replicate that into the correct alloy is available; and when this is more economically viable than finding a replacement part o...
There are watches with some plastic components. That ....,
Printer can't make the part which would work?
May be possible in the future commercially but...
3D printing today has a few problems to overcome: * accuracy - you can make parts to within 0.010 in (254 microns) or so. Most watch parts need higher accuracy than this. * mechanical strength - metal parts by 3D don't have full strength due to porosity e...
I agree - prototyping is where it's at now
I've seen plenty of examples of "printed" parts - from prototypes of the Tread watch to miniature engine parts. But so far they are mostly for concept, not for function. And to me, they appear porous. They often need a finish for visual appeal. Here's wha...
Mostly in agreement
I think for any of the functional pieces (springs, wheels, pinions) or the structural pieces (plates) all of the aformentioned issues make the technology at least 5-10 years out of the industry. I think for the hands, direct 3-d printing might be possible...
I think of 3D printing...
as a novel fabrication technique that watch manufacturers or restorers/repairers can chose to use where it provides advantages over the existing options. But not as a likely revolution in the manufacturing of watches or watch parts. Quickly prototyping wa...
fascinating topic
I tend to agree that at a point (undefined) in the future, technology will enable the dispersion of previous highly restricted manufacturing. This may represent a threat of sorts to some aspects of the watch industry, and many others besides. However, the...
potential for progressive watchmakers
John and all, I see a potential niche for budding, aggressive, and progressive watchmakers to incorporate this technology for 'watch repair and/or restoration'. Just as the cost of sandblasting and laser welding machines have come down and more accessible...
I hope I live...
to see the day when we all have a 3D printer in our homes and can print individualized timepieces at will. After all, a decade or so ago, who among us thought individuals would be able to print documents wirelessly at home from a cellphone! My hunch is th...
Less watchmaking than watch repair ...
John's query is fascinating, and one I am dealing with since the first UN Freak with silicium components came out. Back then, most watch enthusaists dismissed the idea of silicium components, arguing that a repair of these components, or even re-crafting ...
FWIW, I made this
Hello Marcus, Such repairs are rare in my experience, but watchmakers do occasionally manufacture parts (watchmakers that do so serious restoration work do so much more often of course). I made the roller pictured here for an exceptionally rare Kew A Obse...
Very nice, John! But ....
.... parts like these were not what I had in mind in my post. I am aware that good watchmakers sometimes really manufacture parts themselves, mostly to restore an old timepiece. rollers, pins, these are possible. For clocks, re-manufactured teethed wheels...
CNC making of one off parts
Several years ago I saw a presentation (at the only BHI regional meeting I ever went to!) of a watchmaker who was managing one of the vintage watch workshops in London, talking about making a missing part for a vintage Patek using CNC machining. I think a...
More than just shaped metal..
But Marcus, most of these parts are more than just shaped metal, and the manufacturing processes confer the properties that make them eg a balance spring not just a coil of a given alloy. The drawing, rolling, forming, annealing etc all contribute to the ...
This was why ....
... I mentioned 3d printing as an option where the same material could be used, such as silicium, or nickel-phosphor in a LIGA process. Just because neither hairsprings nor balance rings are lumps of simple metal, I doubted that these parts are (commonly)...
understood
Hello Marcus, I was simply addressing the "myth" of watchmakers making parts. The more exotic the material, the less likely it is that someone will be able to re-manufacture a replacement part for it, at least with currently available technology, and that...
9.5'''
When I had a guided tour of the PP museum they said that only the best watchmakers could work on small (ladies) movements because of the skills and dexterity needed at that size... 9 1/2'''... I'm impressed... nick
With merely 3D printing, I don't think it will be revolutionary in watchmaking.
But I believe it will make certain stages of watchmaking ralatively easier. 3D printing means lesser work which results in cheaper watch? I don't think so. Interestingly, I would like to know whether independent watchmakers are using 3D printing in their ...