Baron - Mr Red
14613
WHo comes first?
I think there are all sorts of arguments made for which came first...6200, 6204 or 6205. A case can be made for each, actually. The 6200 has the A296 movement whereas the 6204 and 6205 have the improved A260 movement. That sort of supports the idea that the 6200 was at least manufactured first. The reference chronology also supports the 6200. The Basel Fair of 1954 saw the 6204 released officially as the first Sub. And of course Marcello's argument with the serial numbers is very strong. To my mind, I don't think one can say that the reference chronology is water-tight. It is plausible that 6204 came before 6200. What i think is very hard to dispute is the serial number chronology.....that shows 6204 came before 6200. .....
We are talking about a few months here between all three....under a year Marcello (right?). With the 3-6-9 variation and with the different script on the dials, it looks to me that Rolex were playing with a lot of possible prototype Submariners. I would propose a different possibility....that the 6200 was the first prototype. They put it together and used the older movement and the explorer dial. Not many were made....
Then, they decided to improve the movement and put a different dial format for the official release....and the 6204 was cased and serial numbered first for the official release. The first official Sub sold on the market? I think its the 6204. The first Sub prototype made by Rolex? That is a different question...I think that was the 6200. But it was cased and released after the 6204. In my book, 6205 always gets bronze medal.
Its my theory....just a theory....
This message has been edited by Baron on 2013-09-17 09:10:38
" I am not the Big Crown Guy you think I am."
Let's start with an horological strip tease... If I show you that... What are you thinking? Could it be my Tudor 7924? Definitely not! The insert is black with thick 5 minutes rectangular indexes and no minutes indexes from 0 to 15... Here, the 7924: So, ...
Or.....
. ...maybe not! It is wonderful to see your face with this watch. On the first day, you could not take it off....even when going to bed!!!! I am looking forward to seeing your many scans of this....and then I will post some here too.
I am still in shock.
Thjs is the Watch which killed all the others, for me, during this week end. But knowing that I can still see it is an immense pleasure, though. Not as immense as to own it, but who knows.... ;) Best, Nicolas
C'est le truc....
Quel kyf! The watch is important to Rolex for many reasons. It has so many aspects that make it iconic. Oddly, the movement quality is actually an attraction for THIS watch, but in any other watch would be an issue! BC. 3-6-9. Gilt. Patina. etc etc etc Mo...
Quel Kif... You learn fast! :)
It is the character of this Watch which haunts me. I already experimented that with my Tudor 7924, which is a true beast. But this 6200 goes farther. Hmmm! Yes, I will work on something about your 6200. It is just a question of time. Best, my friend. Nico...
One of the first, if not THE first...
I never understood if the 6200 was the first Sub, or if it was the 6205... Best, Nicolas.
the very first sub sold on the market ...
was the small crown 6204 , that has case number from 1953 in the range of 949.000-989.000 here is a sample of the very first back ( for early 6204 ) : on the contrary the ref. 6200 has case numbers in the 32.000 range ( so from 1954 ) just after the famou...
Excellent informations, Marcello. Now, I know which one was the first.
6204. Now,, I have to figure out which one came first: The 6204 or the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Rotomatic Incabloc, as both the brands stated they were the first to introduce a new Diving Watch... Best, Nicolas.
Great Post
Great information and cool pictures. Doesn't get better than that. And two Big Crowns! Lucky guys! Although, Nicolas, I still think I like that 7924 more - the dial and insert on yours are just perfect. Enjoy it! V/R Mike
I am working on the Big Crown topic for two years, now.
And I will end by posting it, one day... I needed to get and collect more informations and photos before posting it. The question is to know which one I prefer. you can believe me, I love my Tudor 7924 a lot, and if I had to choose between the 7924 and th...
I can't wait to read it!
I am sure it is going to be great - and heavy on the pictures! In the meantime, enjoy all those BCs my friend (esp that 7924!) V/R Mike
I have never gone so deep ...
with the FF ... but I would bet that this early Blancpain is older than the first Submariner ( probably a few months only ) .... it's a feeling based almost on the " older look " of the FF ... an and also on the odd ratio between the sizes of watch and di...
the first diving watch...
...for me is the Rolex-Panerai 2533 / 3646...despite no graduated bezel. 1936
Bingo, Chris. But we are talking of a diving watch which achieves all the criterias of a
Modern Diving Watch. And among them, a bezel. Which is not the case of the 2533, nor the 3646... I like the way you see it, though. ;) Best, Nicolas
WHo comes first?
I think there are all sorts of arguments made for which came first...6200, 6204 or 6205. A case can be made for each, actually. The 6200 has the A296 movement whereas the 6204 and 6205 have the improved A260 movement. That sort of supports the idea that t...
That is why I am lost here, on the chronology.
Your theory is very interesting, Joe, with some good points. Food for thought? Certainly. Best, Nicolas
But...
.....I think it is 100% correct to say the 6204 was the first Sub to be sold...I don't think that is a dispute. Sold first. Released first. I am just not convinced that it was manufactured first.
mmhhh ...
many but interesting questions .. 1) for what I know they begun back at 10.000 .. so 32.000 is in the 2nd half of 1954 ( that stops under 50.000 ) ..thus the time elapsed between the first batch of 6204 and 6200 is roughly 12-14 months. 2) but the real qu...
correction ...
A 260 used for most watches of the " 6100-6121 family " : for ex. 6104 and 6105 had the damned A296 . sorry sometimes I write too fast ...
6200 - military order
That, of course, is also very plausible....and many of the 6200 that surfaced appeared to have been directed at theBritish military... I like playing with theories....so hard to be definitive....and certainly, Marcello, your points are all interesting and...
me too ...
without theories ( and questions to be cleared ) it would be so boring .... we must thank Rolex for her " secrecy " as < no study no fun ! > ( old Pisanian proverb .. LLOLL )
question....
.....i have seen enough evidence to believe that quite a few 6200s were issued direct to British military....but I have also seen some provenance that suggests it was not JUST military. Does that confirm your findings?
of course ...
many 6200 were not military or with a PX provenance but sold through Rolex AD all over the world : quite surprising the same story happened with the 6538 " explorer dial " ... in the early 2000s most people were thinking that this dial had been given only...
It suits you Nicolas
The 6200 suits you very well. I hope you get it into your collection one day. For me it is THE submariner to have. Although I would be very happy with a normal 2-Line 6538 to start with. Nice pictures thank you for posting! Hope you enjoyed beautiful swit...
Undisputably yes. Thank you, Edmond.
Now, to know if it is a good or a bad thing, that is another story... ;) Best, Nicolas
Question
That had for you has now been answered. ;) Enjoy 6200. Its an Icon in Rolex history.
Hi guys, this is my little brick .....
about 6200 with SUBMARINER on the dial, a rarer version than the one without it. And by the way, on my wrist today. ;-) Regarding which one was "the" first, I agree with Baron. 6204 was presented at Basel 1954 as the first Submariner on the market by Role...
Peppo...
....I think you summarise well what i believe as a core theory. And by the way.... wow! What a beautiful example. Yes, I have heard of a handful of examples like yours....no more than 4 or 5 I believe. Fantastic!
Thanks for adding your little brick but big crown, Peppo.
Your 6200 is a hell of a Watch. Still have some scans from you for my Big Crown topic, which I may post before the end of this year... Best, my friend. Nicolas
This could be my only vintage Rolex!
Wonderful watch! It has everything: big crown, 369 gilt dial, rarity and beauty! It brings back fond memories of my 6205, unfortunately long gone... ...
If only I knew you before you let this one go!
This 6205 is just superb. As for the 6200, yes, this is a dream to live, and better, to try to achieve... In fact, I love all these no crown guard Subs... From the 6200, to the 6204, 6205, 6536 and 5508, without forgetting the 6538, the 5510 and the Tudor...
Ah, the stupidty of youth!
But it was only 6 years ago... :-( Incidentally it went to a dealer in Paris. So maybe you cross its path one day! Good luck!
re-correct the error
Did you try and re-locate the watch? I am sure if you want it hard enough you could find the watch again and buy it back-. Although of course the prices have moved since 6 years but its worth a try! Edmond
I love your "dream"!
Such a powerful watch! :) Happy to been able to see this one in the real! Best Blomman
What is my dear friend Nicolas hiding? was the first thing I thought...
... when I viewed the first picture of your post. Then... Wow!! Big Crown+3-6-9 dial!! What else? (using George Clooney famous words) Fantastic watch my friend, and a wonderful presentation, followed by a most interesting discussion with Marcelo and Baron...
A big surprise, isn't it?
This one goes straight on the top of my dream list. I fear I am hooked with no crownguard Subs... Small or Big crowns. They have something very special. An undisputable elegance. Un abrazo, Dexter! Nicolas
Wow!!! This is a WATCH
I love it. Thank you so much for sharing this with all of us true vintage fans. I would love to see one of the Rolex Vintage Submariner 6200 watches or even a 6204. Pretty awesome. happy wearing. Paul Altieri