Mike H
[AHCI Moderator]
10998
It depends what for...
To look at by curiosity at such a specimen is quite rare, I would really like to see the first one with this incredible dial. On top it has PCG and chapter line, 4 lines... In short WOW !
But to own I would go for the second (it's a twin sister of mine) as I love the black mirror laqued dial, the warm patina of gold color writing, the beautiful gilt hands... In short it has an incredible charm and that's mine.
But obviously I would take any of the 2 if I could, hehehe ! 
HAGWE,
Mike
Rolex Submariner 5512 / 5513. So close, so different.
An early one with a dial which developed an extraordinary patina: 4 lines, Chapter ring, pointed crown guards, from 1959. Tough to get an earlier Submariner Crown guards. This 5513, now, is from 1964. The black dial is flawless, like a mirror, the contras...
It depends what for...
To look at by curiosity at such a specimen is quite rare, I would really like to see the first one with this incredible dial. On top it has PCG and chapter line, 4 lines... In short WOW ! But to own I would go for the second (it's a twin sister of mine) a...
the line between tripical and damaged.....
......is one that lies in teh eye of the beholder. A flawless dial, on the other hand, has a degree of objectivity about it. I much prefer to be in teh latter camp.
5513 would be my choice.
Hi Nicholas, Thanks for sharing those difficult to find pieces (at least for me).My choice would be 5513. the contrast between the dial and the markers take me to it seems to have a good condition. Best regards, Bülent...
I don't get this
open your rolex, take out the dial and put it one year in the sea or under the ground and than you'll get something that looks similar to the first one. That is not beautiful patina but a completely DESTROYED dial ! I'm waiting for the first to put a dial...
i think you make a valid point....
......"tropical" is a subjective issue. At what point does a dial become damaged? There is a line. I am just not sure it is a constant line. It varies from one person to another. For me, I am in teh same camp as you...for choice I want a dial to be as it ...
Would we all take a look at the 'patina'd' version if it wasn't so collectible & valuable?
Would a high end Swiss 50's or 60's dress watch with such dial patina make it desirable too? Is this level of dial degradation an acceptable level of patina that shows it's history or is it auction room hipster speak for 'ruined'? HAGWE all. Gi
Would go for the first.....
...and my case was: would it have created any interest / value but for it's inherent age and rarity in this poorer condition? We see 3 classic Alfa giulietta'a - 1 is a well looked after original, the other has been in a crash, the 3rd is a 'barn' find - ...
I had the same dilemma years ago and had always thought...
... that some dials offered like supreme results of pass of time (and costly to boot!) were not acceptable for me. It was my thought till I was offered this 5512 some years ago and I succumbed to its haunting call. I still feel though that there is a very...
The line is thin for most of the non vintage fans. For vintage fans, things are clearer. The condition and the patina are sometimes not in conflict.
For example, the first example I posted is, for me, not in bad condition. The dial has changed, but the structure of the dial is good. A bit of spider, yes, but not destroyed. With glossy black dials, no wonder, no question. All good. But the first exampl...
I don't want to express my opinion on these two dial, but...
... I can assure that years ago when I read a tutorial made by e strong Italian collector on how to turn the hours markers more vintage, by simply using a watercolor mixture (obviously also to the the hand to get a perfect match) and by simply doing that ...