happy_wis
290
Yes....
I am 100% agreed with you on the following statement:
"Ufortunately there is no quantifiable definition of rare, but one knows it when he sees it."
As I said before, it all comes to the personal feeling. 
Just found out one thing that's interesting....
it looks like that the people (group X) who feel / believe 5970 is "rare" own the watch; and
it looks like that the people (group Y) who don't feel / believe 5970 is "rare" do not own the watch.
Are we having:
Group X people justifying their buy while
Group Y people justifying their "not-to-buy"
This thread is indeed interesting...
To make the things more complicated, I think we can put the "rare" in context... i.e. "rare" from AD and "rare" from the market...
Is a 5970 G REALLY that hard to find?????? ******No, it is not
I've been offered about THREE 5970's in the last two weeks, just today a 5970G. New in plastic, etc, etc. What is the big deal???????? I keep turning them down, because I honestly believe the 5970 is not that hard to find. Yes, it will go up when disconti...
None of the crazy hot watches are hard to find
Want a 3970/5970? I can have 15 of them by Tuesday. Want a Barichello or JPM Offshore? Look on the internet and you'll find multiple of each within 5 minutes. A premium is a result of demand exceeding supply at a given price. In the case of most of these ...
RE:"I keep turning them down,because I honestly believe the 5970 is not that hard to find"
What difference does it make? No offense, but would you buy it if it was 'hard to find' ? I thought people would buy $100K watch first of all - because they like it ;-) ....well.....ANY watch for that matter.....
The 5970 is rare.
Unfortunately, forum guidelines prohibit mentioning AD's. But please send an e-mail to [Email address suppressed for privacy] with the names of the AD's who have a 5970 waiting in stock to help me believe these are offered so freely. I am not in the marke...
I've already articulated
my view on the AD-having-a-5970-question. To some, they say they have one. To others, they say they don't. They do as they please to serve themselves first and foremost, and to most importantly inflate the notion that the watch, and many other Pateks--can...
agree with tahoeblue
i don't know how many dealers have 5970G/R in stock for the moment, as normally they wouldn't put those high-end models in show case. based on what i have been talking with "powerful" ADs in tokyo, i think they are receiving 4-5 pieces at most, 5970R/G, p...
the fact that the AD's don't have them but all the Grey's do is even worse
It suggests that a very large portion are being bought by speculators in order to flip. That is a purely artificial market.
Rare or not rare....
Think about this: A model that is limited to 10 pieces, is it rare? A model that is limited to 100 pieces, is it rare? A model that is limited to 1000 pieces, is it rare? If you have solid answer (either Rare, or not Rare) for any of the above questions, ...
I agree with TahoeBlue too.....
I personally don't think majority of us fork out $100k to buy a watch just because it is hard to get. If that's your mentality, I feel sorry for you. But then I know you are not that kind of collector. You have a beautiful 3940P and it wasn't rare at all....
Sigh.......
I guess I'm being misunderstood by everyone, except Steve. Thanks for kind words, CL. The 5970 rarity is, as Steve said, artificially created. Will the watch go up in value? Yes. Is it rare????? No, it is not rare. I can buy one today, tomorrow, everyday ...
Just wondering... what is a true "rare" watch in your mind?
Mind to share with us about the "rare" watch? Which one is the one in your mind? (IMHO) As long as it exists, money CAN buy it. It all depends on "how much".... Is the Sky-Moon Tourbillon (5002) "rare" in your mind? Yes? No? It is going to be auctioned so...
The Sky-Moon is obviously rare
One being for sale is not evidence of a lack of rarity. In fact, just the opposite. The reason we are all aware of this one that is for sale is because they almost never come up for sale. The RM008 in the auction is another example of this. Unfortunately ...
SteveH...you are funny.
I will tell you one experience of mine. I did call to ask for 5970G in the past....2 gray dealers tell me they have but none really have. When I want to commit, they ask me to wait for a week after the watch show. They tried to get it from the show and se...
Next time call me
I will have a 5970 for you any day of the week I have PERSONALLY seen and held at least 20 examples of this watch. If you want a quantifiable criteria to dispute rarity, that certainly is one right there. As for the GP, I know for a fact they are quite ra...
I remembered the last time I ask you about 5970....
and if you can help me locate one ,you said you didn't know anything about it. Now you are an 'expert' and have touched more than 20 samples..... you sure pick up things really fast As for your GP...if you get sick of it, you know who to call ;-) Did I te...
I don't know anything about collecting Pateks
They don't interest me at all and I don't see the hype. If I wanted a perpetual chrono, i would buy the VC Malte without a second thought (or a Datograph Perpetual if I was going to spend 5970 money). You asked me what I thought about future resale of the...
Future resale value???
I thought I was asking you what's a fair value to buy a 5970G from a dealers (since you know so many and have always gotten good price) as I was looking for one and can't find any. You told me you are not familiar with the watch and hence don't know the p...
Perhaps I misunderstood your question
Here is the email. I hope you don't mind me posting it...nothing personal in it: Hi Steve...I know you are quite an 'expert' in term of great deal and pricing I would love your thought on this. Patek 5970 is currently retailing at $96 300. If I buy it and...
Ah.... the Dato Perpetual...
It is interesting that you bring out the comparison with Dato Perpetual... Could you share with us why you would pick the Dato Perpetual instead of 5970 if you were going to spend the "5970" money? Do you think that: 1. Dato Perpetual looks better 2. Ther...
simply like it better
I cannot imagine buying it though. As I said, if I were to buy a perpetual chrono I would definitely go for the VC. I like it more and it can be had at less than half the price.
Talking about numbers... you may be surprised...
Just wondering do you know how many Tourbillons are made every year in GP? A few pieces? A few tens pieces? or A few hundreds pieces. I think you can find a better answer from Peter in the GP forum. Let's assume that they made 300 pieces a year. 300 / 5%=...
I dont have actual production numbers
but from everything that I've heard, GP Tourbillon production is much closer to 30 yearly than 300. I'm quite familiar with most of the gray dealers and have seen less than 5 for sale in the last 2 years.
hahaahha....I must confess...
I didn't know it will be this POPULAR...hahahhhahaha Not brave at all....just dumb ;-) Lovesss*CL ps. But I'm happy I'm getting the 5980 soon. This one I really like and I can see myself wearing
Keep me posted as I also
eagerly await for mine to arrive which my AD told me will definitely be this year. Fingers crossed.
Happy to know that you like 5980 too .....
I have always like your Patek collection *CL
my opinion
I own the 5970 in RG and WG, and 5070 in both metals. I believe the 5970s will trade around 180K when they are discontinued in 2008, and the 5070s around 90K when they are discontinued....only all up from there. I know PP is a mystery house, but seeing as...