Officine Panerai

 

Found this on Paneristi

picture : credits to Mak

 " I recently got a bubbling effect below the words "composite" and a day or two later a whole top layer chunk fell off! Now I can see the material below (presumably aluminium?). Also if you look carefully at the word "composite", some of the letters have been slightly affected, with some more "bubbling" starting to happen above the word. Will be taking it back to the boutique in a couple of weeks when I get back home. Single Malt laden sweat seems to be worse off than tequila "

 and this is the entire thread :  [external link removed in accordance with forum guidelines]

 

 

Did they make this watch to fast and didn't they take the time to really test this material ? I've heard things like alcohol would damage the case but sweat also seems to be a problem ?

I don't think they can fix this.

Will they make the 375  ? They must be aware of this problem and they can't afford such a mistake

Will the 339 be they only composite we'll EVER see ?????

The 386 isn't delivered yet and I wonder if they ever will. Maybe they're holding them back because they don't wan't more troubles

To end in a positive way, if the 339 would be the only watch where they used composite it will become an even more collectible and sought after watch   LOL

This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2011-08-15 15:27:12

It's really scary and made me really worried

I love the 339, and I was still hoping to get one until I saw this picture

OK, the discoloration, I can totally understand, but part of the coating came off... I think it will be a serious issue

I really hope Panerai will respond to this matter and explain about this material..

Something that I thought could be a really nice and durable watch that I could wear everyday, should not have this kind of issue

Thanks for bringing that up here Bruno!

Best,


Sam

so Strange.!

Sorry to see this happening to this kind of Material.

which always makes me wonder why Panerai didn't do the 339 in Ceramic ?!

look at page 4 of the guarantee booklet.

  Maybe you will find something like this: Are strictly excluded from the international guarantee, in particular * Scrapes, scratches, oxidation and loss of color, finish or material.

 

yep they got it all covered !!!

 

 

 

Ciao,

I was one of the 1st in the world to take delivery of the 339, so i can safely say that iv had mine longer than most have had theirs, and knowing me and what i do with my Panerai watches, added to the fact that i live in hot humid Asia plus i also sweat a fair bit, and yet my 339 sees NOTHING even close to the problems that occurs with this Risti's example.

I hope that OP gets to the bottom of this when he sents his piece in, and resolve the problem appropriately.

I must say though that Panerai Composite is one of the most elusive and mysterious materials used in modern watchmaking. Am yet to get to the REAL bottom of this enigma!

Ciao

Stephen

Jokes aside, Steven, mine has been a safe queen, since I bought it (I don't like the gitzmo much) and after these unsettling news, I've got even more reasons to wear other PAMs. I'm sure Panerai will find a way to fix this inconveniences...will they?..
Cheers - Sergio

Well, first in Japan for sure!

Oh? Well thats a pity because you should wear it! A very versatile watch, at least for me!

I don't know about Panerai fixing this, don't forget that my Mare had to go back TWICE for the same mistake!

Ciao

Stephen

Don't get me wrong, I still consider it a gorgeous piece but, on the wrist, I prefer a 1A, 26B, 36, 22B, 127 and on it goes...

Cheers - Sergio 

And me!

Do enjoy your other beauties, especially that 127!

Ciao

Stephen

I have no doubt that Panerai would rectify this.   Not sure whether this is an isolated case but I know of MANY happy 339 owners, myself included.

the bit that Steven posted here, is part of a bigger bit/thread, started by another owner with some serious discoloration problem..

Cheers - Sergio

Maybe in 10-20 years time, these discolouration would be much sought after Patina ( tropical ) like the vintage rolexes LOL.cheers,dreamer

one thing is discoloration. Another altogether are pieces dropping off from the watch.... I would rather stick to the original and much sought after T-dial patina, than a falling-to-pieces case...hahahahaha Let's see what happens and don't worry about being flippant, I also possess a somewhat....irreverent.....sense of humor.

Cheers - Sergio

As much as I love Panerai, I think this is unacceptable

If they bring us a new material they should haved tested it before. I hope they don't use their clients as guinea pigs ! Right from the start I read things like 'watch out with alcohol because It could harm the color of your composite case'. I don't think nobody has the guts but I would love to see a 339 bading in a glass of whiskey. Does it really harm the composite ?? If so, I think this is unacceptable. Alcohol is something most of us handle every day or at least once a week so there is always a big chance somebody spills some beer, whine, or whatever on his / her watch. I can accept something like battery acid will harm your watch but just some alcohol ??

Now, when even sweat can do this ?? Even when only 1% of the customers has a problem I think it is too much. AFAIK at least 4 people had some problems.4 People known on forums , so in the real world it will be more than these 4, right ?

I'm starting to think that composite isn't the best option for a wristwatch. And maybe Panerai  should stop making them. Nice and rare if you have one.!

If I were Panerai I woudl hesitate to make the 386 and 375 ... in fact, I wouldn't

I'm not sure it's right to 'assume' they're using their customers as guinea pigs.   I know for fact that there are testing procedures in place.   Having said that, the procedures might not be feasibly extensive enough to cover EVERY possibility.    Granted things do happens, I still think it's premature, at this point, to put the blame either way.

Like any other problem, the owners with the problem are always the one making the loudest noise, rightfully or not, while there are MANY more happy owners out there who're just quietly enjoying their pieces.    Let's be a little bit more patient and see how this unfolds?

Last but not least, I applaud Panerai for having the courage to try something new.  Frankly I'd rather see them being innovative, even though if it means a little mistake here and there, rather than being ultra conservative.   We have enough boring watches in the market already.

I'm another VERY happy 339 owner also...no issues for me!

That's the nature of the internet beast.  When something goes wrong, its easy to get online and look/post the problems.  That is true with EVERYTHING that goes wrong, TVs, phones, toilet, you name it. 

Just interesting to see how this develops.  The 339 is one of Panerai's marquee pieces in their entire lineup and many of their first pieces were allocated to their most ardent supporters. 

Assuming half of the allotted 1500 pieces have been distributed, its still isolated cases (I hope). 

Guess its wait and see time. 

It's been/being used by other manufacturers without any problems. Calling coated (anadized) aluminium COMPOSITE is new allright.....

Guillermo

Again, this so called "new" COMPOSITE is nothing more then anodized aluminium (aluminium with a coating)....This proces isn't NEW or innovative..Really feel bad for the ones who are having this problem and I can only it will be solved. I for one do not feel it will end here..There seems to be a serious fault in the production wich more then likely will have affected the hole 339 line.

Guillermo

...from what I can glean from Panerai's releases, the coating process isn't the usual dip-in-electrolyte-tub-connected-to-a-battery style anodising. Instead of forming Aluminium Oxide, the process (google 'Microplasmic') uses masses of AC power to form a ceramic layer.

That said: I agree that it is a production fault. It looks like there were some contaminants on the caseback before coating, with pitting the longer term result.

I am of the opinion that these processes (microplasmic, PVD, CVD, etc) were originally developed to increase engineering properties of materials (wear resistance, hardness, etc) and were never intended to obtain the level of cosmetic perfection (colour depth, uniformity) that the likes of a watch case 'requires'. To obtain those cosmetic properties, the engineering properties are probably compromised.

Any other composite owners here experience the same problem?

- AT

know how the owner have wear  his watch...  i do not think it will end  up all like this ,pitting...IMO

According to a post on another Panerai forum, if the anodised aluminium is not " sealed " properly, acids or other caustic agents can cause pitting. cheers,dreamer

No message body

Hello,

No message body

from the RM forum.

So it seems that the acidity of the skin can cause some serious problems.

I know, right now it are exceptions and definitely the picture in my opening thread. Maybe the owner has a more than average acid skin or sweat. But what if within 3 years all these watches would have similar problems ? Maybe this watch is one of the first but who says the others won't follow ? Just like 'patina' some watches have much more patina than others. And some have patina after 5 years, others after 10 years or more.

I think they should not use this material anymore, not unless they know exactly how it reacts after a few years. If they use some material which has already been tested several years (in  aviation or the car industry) we won't see problems. But composite.... COMPOSITE ? What the hell is it and in which industry do they use it. Does it have any history ?

Maybe Panerai should give all the owners of a 339 a FREE ceramic case. Just in case the problem would grow. A spare case if necessary would be a solution. Because, if this watch is sent back to Panerai they will probably fix it but what if a lot off others will have the same problem in  2013 ? Warranty won't be valid at that time.

 

Now you're making some future assumptions and based on these random predictions you're asking Panerai to stop using this material?

We're not sure of the exact situation on this watch and whether it's truly related to the use of composite material.   Until we know better, I don't think it's fair to make ANY demand from Panerai.

Now onto your point of whether there is any 'history' to composite:    How does it relate to this?     There're plenty of innovations and if we do not look at them with an open mind, there will NEVER be any history to it.  

Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.  I'm not sure if it's productive to continue publicly in this manner.

This message has been edited by Jester on 2011-08-16 12:12:16

... watch manufacturer, should Panerai investigate this matter and find that there is a technical flaw in the design of the product that may or may not materialize for some watches, they will either extend warranty or adjust the manufacturing process, create a flawless case and then replace cases....

I would not worry about it too much for now. In addition, at least that is the case where I live, what most consumers do not realize that most of the times they have more warranty than the warranty period given by the manufacturer. Clearly, this does not apply to normal wear and tear etc .

But in this case, ie a very expensive watch, one could expect that the product purchased is free of inherent flaws/technical errors etc. So if the manufacturer provides a 2 year warranty, but say that after 3 years it becomes apparent that there is a serious problem with the case, enitrely because of the way it was constructed / designed, and of which one could expect that for the price of such an expensive watch, there would not be such flaws in the product, then I would be reasonably confident that you could still hold them to the guarantee....