Officine Panerai

Anthony's post got me thinking as well as a post in the Rolex forum about reproducing classic models and the previous post the 127 vs the 372.  Below are two models that again I would ask you to say which you prefer and why.    It is so personal and so subtle.  If you add the dimension of price and availability how does that sit.

I think we can have an interesting conversation after we hear back from the members.

Let's hear your thoughts.

If we disregard the price, I'd pick the 21...

The only downside of the 21 is that the case is platinum.. Steel is much preferred material for Panerai..

But just look at the picture... 21 is so much cleaner (without the L SWISS MADE L) have a vintage look to it and of course hard to argue that the presence of the vintage rolex movement made it so much more special

Best,

Sam

because I find the vintage looking font on the PAM21 is much more attractive than that of the PAM232's.  I love how the PAM21 font is super thin and jumps right out at you.

Even if both watches were in steel cases w/ the same exact movements, I'd still prefer the look of the PAM21.

Cheers,
Anthony

 

love that font on the 21's dial...

How does that figure into the mix.  I can understand a 1 or 2x difference we can say the comparison holds.  But when we are talking about a 15x or 20x diffrence where is our barometer.

I guess we get back to a timex tell time like a Patek.    But here we are talking about two watches that have a "slight"  variation in the dial .  One is steel the other Platinum.

So what are we saying about "reproduction / re issues"  is it OK, desirable or even acceptable.

This is such a challenge look at the Daytona thread in the Rolex forum.

I guess we have all beat that horse to death.

Bill

PS It is almost like trying to keep price out of the conversations - a hard nut to crack with that added dimension

It's a distinctive brand whose heritage plays a large role in its appeal.  Rolex and PP seem to enjoy such a heritage as well (Submariner and Calatrava respectively).....

The tritium indexes,  the movement, the weight of the case ( the 21 is in platinum ), and the price,  too.

Which one would I prefer, now?

Instead of a Pam 21, I would take a 232 and a Vintrage Cali, and I would still have some money to get some more watches.

Best,

Nicolas.

to be objective on the issue. The 21 is THE grail for so many people for such a long time, it has come to represent almost ALL that is desirable in a Panerai (bar the Platinum which, IMO, doesn't defile the watch at all, since the colour is white). Other than the mistique of the 21 and again, IMPO, the visual of the two watches it's almost....6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Which one would I choose? The 21, I think.

Cheers - Sergio

ps I still can't get over the colour of the shirt 232...hahahaha

As to the watches and the reissue / redesign you will always be re reing and it will always be compared to the original.  Now we add the special mix of the LE the 21 had +/- 60 units the PAM 127 had 1950  the 372 I think will not be a LE and will be 1000-1500.  All these added dimensions make things even more compicated to understand.

There will never be another PAM 21 unless they stamp those numbers on a watch that looks the same with an inhouse movement.  But maybe a LE xx21 Platinum Radiomir with the same or better vintage looking dial and there we have it we then can say the new "xx21" get my vote.

This is a race with the Jones with the brand which over time will get harder and harder to control.  As more and more look alike models come out the start to dilute the original cache.  I see the 323 as the poor mans 21 produced in +/- 1932 units LE and somewhat true to the tool side of things as noted with a solid back so I see it supporting the 21 legacy.  But some of the other models may have a different effect as in the 127 case.  I happy to own the fiddy and his brother 217  they where close brothers but complimentary of sorts.

Boy I wouldn't want to be the brand manager at Panerai you have to satisfy the demand while remaining true to the brand legacy and make money to continue to grow and remain relevant.

Boy...

Bill

I do like the fact that it presents a solid case back, as any tool watch should.......of course, i wouldn't be using the 232 as a tool watch

J

If the asking price was not $220,000, but probably a quarter of that i'd pull on it right today.

Sigh

Stephen

If I was considering a 21, it would probably mean I already owned 1 or more vintage pieces, so that aspect of collecting would be taken care of. 21 is a great piece with the Rolex movement and somehow I really like the welded on wire lugs; feels more pure to me. The dial and font is definitely cleaner than the 232 also. So my pick would be 21.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me to see a Rad counterpart of the 372 for next years SIHH. 47mm, stainless, in house, engraved dial like the 372. 127-->372 232-->???

Back here in the real world though I'd love to own 232.

Honestly, I would like to own a PAM 232, it is a very historical watch, the 47MM size is the size I like, the dark brown dial and gold hands is just the way I like it. The PAM 232 is definitely a great piece for the money.

As for the PAM 21, that's just all the icing on the cake in one watch for many reasons:
- First of all, the watch is beautiful.
- Then it is unnecessarily in platinum which just makes it even more desirable.
- Furthermore, the font on the dial seems to be the best balance of the most historically accurate and best-looking Panerai font on the dial (when compared to modern Panerais).
- And last but not least, the fact that it has a very nicely finished Rolex movement (this Rolex movement possesses some the best finishing I've seen on a Rolex movement) makes this Panerai so incredibly desirable that it is beyond words. It's really this Rolex movement that is this watch's strongest suit. There is pretty much nothing that I would change about this watch except perhaps the strap system; it's difficult to have straps changed on this watch because the lugs are welded on. Such difficulty would actually cause me to wear this watch less where I would wear the PAM 232 often. If the Panerai boutique could readily change straps on this watch (of course without cutting the lugs, but stitching a new strap onto the watch) I would feel much more comfortable.

I like the PAM 232 for its authenticity with the original. It's charming in the front, and relatively accurate to the original. The 47MM size is great and this watch is practical to wear on a daily basis. This watch is definitely worth the money. The only thing I would change would be the movement, wished it had a more significant movement and a sapphire case back to show it off.

The PAM 21 is definitely a watch with all of the boxes checked. However Bill, you asked me to include the price into my rationale. Honestly, I can't fathom the price into this watch, I hear that it is well into the six figures which is unfortunately something that slightly boggles my mind and slightly affects my judgement. From a perspective of passion, I love this watch. However, when you factor the cost to acquire one, I would wonder if there are other watches in this price range that I would rather own that would give me equal or greater pleasure. Last but not least, my favorite Panerai is the PAM 203 which is very expensive but less than the PAM 21. However, if I owned a PAM 203 already, I would not likely derive greater utility from owning a PAM 232 (unless I owned the 232 before I acquired the 203), and if I were a 203 owner looking to acquire my next Panerai, only the PAM 21 would come to mind.

So ultimately, my conclusion is dependent on where one is currently with their Panerai collection. An owner of the 203 (suggesting someone already established within Panerai) should be infatuated with the 21 if he has the means. However, a beginner (like myself) would be happy owning just about any 47MM limited edition Panerai including the 232.

I hate bringing money into the equation, but it does add a perspective of reality.

When the dimension of price comes into the mix,  one what has a slight appeal, but is 15x or 20x the price what happens to our perception of the reality.

I will say it again I to love the 21 but I am merely illustrating or should I say adding something into the conversation beyond looks namely the perceived beneficial difference considering the price differential.

Look at Rolex, you can pay 2, 3 or 5 time the price based on the dial.  You essentially by a dial at the end of the day.  But I am one of those crazy guys that wants and looks for that aspect of perfection. 

If money were no object....

This whole watch biz is crazy but I am happy to be the company of other in the same predicament.

I love it....

Bill
 

I'm also new to Panerai as a brand, but feel that the price difference and fact that to my knowledge), platinum was not used historically - therefore think 232 is the best representative.

but IF $$$$$$$$$ was no object ?!!

 of course the 21 wins my Heart.

 Great Pictures...

  Cheers

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