Horological Meandering

I feel like my limit keeps rising. It started out as anything around a few hundred dollars was really expensive, and now i've been known to spend 20k or more for a single watch. i feel crazy for even contemplating spending 100k usd or more, but in my mind, I feel like it's justifiable for the right piece. I know I'm not alone.... or am I?

Hi rlh3458,

 

While bracket creep has a specific fiscal definition, I tend to think of watch collecting like this too. And it’s not just a monetary issue, although there is a mental hurdle as well to spending $10K, $20K, $100K on a watch. But we also frequently want something better finished, in more luxurious materials, something more exclusive. That’s human nature. And just as fiscal bracket creep occurs as your income increases (either to keep up with inflation or because of better remuneration for your experience) you may well have more disposable income for these little luxuries than you did when you were younger.

 

So “how much would I pay for a watch?” Actually I don’t want to contemplate that because I have been on a dangerous trajectory for a few years. Perhaps I will expand laterally now?

 

And what are you "... contemplating spending 100k usd or more ..." on?

 

A

..to keep up with this hobby.  rl, which watch did you spend on for that USD10k or 20k?

On August 27, 2008, I made a post entitled "The Addiction: Breaching Self-Imposted Price Limits." I have copied my post below. The irony is that, in the two and a half years since I made the post, my addiction continued to evolve just as I prophesized, and I long ago passed the boundaries that, in 2008, I labeled "insane."

From 2008:

The Addiction: Breaching Self-Imposed Price Limits

When I was 10, I told my father I would never smoke marijuana, and I meant it with every fiber of my body. One year later, I smoked my first joint. Thereafter, I promised myself I would never try cocaine. A year later, I was doing lines. Thereafter, I promised myself I would never try LSD. A year later, I was dropping acid. I repeatedly established limits/barriers for myself, with every intent of restraining myself accordingly, and I repeatedly breached my self-imposed barriers as my addiction evolved. FWIW, I have been sober for 25 years.

So what does this have to do with watch collecting? I vividly recall the first time I spent more than $5,000 on a watch. Prior thereto, I never thought I would spend such a sum on a watch. Yet, I did. I was incredibly nervous about the expenditure. I was in foreign territory, spending more than I ever expected. I told myself I would only purchase one such "grail" watch. At the time, a friend of mine was spending $20,000-$30,000 on individual watches. I told myself I would never spend $20,000 on a watch. At the time, I genuinely believed that I would comply with my self-imposed barriers. Yet, notwithstanding my initial conviction, my watch expenditures continued to gradually increase. I quickly eclipsed each and every ceiling I artificially imposed on myself.

A few days ago, I spent more than I have ever spent on a single watch. If you had asked me two years ago whether I would spend this amount on a watch, I would have responded with an emphatic "no" and I would have meant it. Yet, two years later, I did it without remorse.

Now I look at my friend who previously spent $20,000-30,000 on a watch, and he currently shells out $200,000+ for a single piece. I wonder if I will ever spend such a sum on a watch? If you ask me today, the answer is an emphatic "NO" and I firmly believe that. $200,000 is an insane amount to spend on a watch, particularly when you consider what else you can purchase with $200,000. Yet, given my history of breaching self-imposed ceilings, I wonder what my thinking will be two years from now, as my passion for watches continues to evolve.

Have you set limits in terms of how much you will spend on a single watch? Have you eclipsed those limits? Have you done this repetitively?

Craig

I am completely amazed by the psychology of obsession, but the answer to your question is "anything."

You will get that answer over and over.  The only ceiling is budget.

A better question is "what about a watch will make you pay?"  "pay any amount?" 

The same question can be posed regarding cars - why pay hundreds of thousands/millions for something not as reliable as a Honda? 

Therein lies the reason we are human - to always desire more than we accomplish.

Your psychological limits will dramatatically reduce when your horological culture will grow up...

You're not alone. We are a lot of victims of the same phenomenon, here.

Best,

Nicolas.

I've discovered that my limit is often raised as I spend more time on Purist Pro and other sites like it

Raises the following question--how much time should I spend on any given day learning about horology?

No message body

I think as long as you don't go overboard and stay within your limits, you'll be fine.

"I can resist anything but temptation".....

cheers

PAt

... the preparedness to spend anything - literally anything - on the right watch is limited only by the availability of the requisite amount of free cash.

"Free cash" here means money available for discretionary spending after meeting all of the familial necessities of life.

"The right watch" here means one that necessarily appeals personally and which, within reason, will warrant the expenditure having regard to a subjective appreciation of its historical significance, horological significance, artistic merit, technical merit or other discriminator[s]. In answer to the question you are about to ask, though: no, it doesn't have to be thought to be worth its price in the eyes of anyone else, though that would be a welcome bonus.

As for Craig? Well, he's in a league of his own!  Cojones of hardened platinum. Body temp of -273 degrees Kelvin. Credit rating superior to most countries in the European Union - collectively.  A man to be admired, envied, and rolled in a dark alley if you get the chance!

     

 

Cheers,

pplater.

Loved your comment on Craig, yes, he's a class of his own. However, I am sure that there are more than a few similar characters quietly lurking here ...

Regards,
Marcus

" Cojones of hardened platinum "???

Are you sure?

Best,

Nicolas.

...very happy to take it on faith!

;-)

 

Cheers,

pplater.

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Hi rlh3458,

your self-observation is obviously confirmed by the experience of many others around here - and other examples (cars, handbags) have been given. I have observed the same tendency for myself and was surprised how much money I would be ready to spend on quality watches.

Things may take over and people may no longer fully control their behaviour. This is IMO a hint that it´s not always our better self that is in control of our deeds, but our urge or sometimes even greed.
If someone is overruled by his/her want for alcohol or drugs (which usually is causing physical problems on a long-term basis), we speek of addiction and abuse. Increase of the dosage is a common phenomenon of addiction and abuse.
If the same person is happening to "consume" watches, cars, stamps, jewellery, antiques, pens, houses or carpets we call him/her a collector .
This collecting habit can show a huge variation from harmless gathering to compulsive and budget-threatening expenses, so this makes it hard to generalize.
But the same does apply to other behaviour like alcohol consumption; it´s not that easy to classify from the outside. Usually the process of dependency and increasing dosage is gradual and subtle.

The best informed person to qualify the addiction potential is the person concerned herself. In alcohol abuse a typical questionaire will contain questions like: "Did you ever think your drinking habits might be dangerous? Did you consider to cut down your alcohol consumption? Have you ever tried to do so? Have your drinking habits ever caused you trouble?"
Similar questions we may ask ourselves in any other aspect of our live (eating, drinking, collecting, sporting, working, relaxing, socializing ...). And if we should repeatedly answer "Yes", we should be ready to consider we´ve got a problem there.

I recently listened to a sermon on "Lust" and I remember a line from the 1. Letter to the Corinthians, chapter 6, verse 12:

"Everything is permissible for me- but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible for me- but I will not be mastered by anything."

As long as we are not mastered by whatever our "soft spot" is, things should be o.k. If we are not free to abstain, the first step would be to acknowledge this fact.

 

 

Kind regards from a fellow-struggler,

anaesdoc

i, for example, will happily pay up to $100 for a good watch

best

Graham

What a progress, Graham!

Best, Fifty Quids man!

Nicolas;

I promise.

Best

Andreas

These days, most watch manufacturers seem to apply their greatest creative powers to price-raising. Nevertheless, a lot of watches have not significantly gone up in price. You can still get a nice vintage Patek or IWC for about the same that it would have cost five years ago, and those watches are still among the finest watches ever made. I can't own every watch, so watches essentially have to compete against each other for my attention. When I look at a more expensive watch, I express its price in terms of the number of vintage Pateks I could have instead, and the urge to buy (if any) goes right away.

My first watch was $10,000. And from what I've learnt..its very time-consuming for me to keep multiple watches. Whther is it servicing or mantience etc.. Because I look after my things really well, and time is limited..

I'd rather save up the money, invest, study, learn more stuff like driving a boat, etc. than put in money into a bottomless pit. At the same time, i totally understand the passion and rational for those into time pieces so im totally cool with it. I guess watches are a very casual side hobby for me that wont go into anything more.

 

it takes many, many man hours to learn to be really good at something so thats just my thoughts

On your free cash.. More than on your income..aka your other liabilities, say house(s) wife, ex-wife, kids, etc.

On eventual other interests. Are you into cars..? Shares..? Or..?

On the given watch..Rarity, ones in a lifetime, grailwatch...

-------------------

I would be willingly to pay more than 10.000 or 20.000 for a watch, and have done. But 50.000 or even 100.000 would really make me think if I "need" that watch. I might spend the amount on something else more useful (did I really write that . Something for the kids, for the house or for the summer house or..?

But lets see what the future brings

Hagwe

Hans

work in famous auction house once told me that any watch above $100k is 'silly'.
He will not get any watch above that price, though he himself owns a few of them that's currently worth above that price point.
I listen carefully to what he said and made my mind that I will not get anything that I feel will lose its value of more than $30k or illiquid should I need the cash.
So, if a watch costs me $150k and I'm confident to get back $120k if I need cash quick, I will consider that watch.
Does that make sense to you?
Currently, very few watches fit that criteria :-(
*CL

It usually depends on the availability of my free cash, my wife's verbal approving limit and of course my desire to own the watch.

I have tried to set a limit but never keep it.

Regards

Ling

is very similar to yours.  Each new watch is more expensive than the last, and as Andrew said once I got over the mental hurdle of spending a large amount of money it gets easier and easier to spend a lot on subsequent pieces.  Having crossed a money barrier that was a lot for me, I don't have reservations like I used to about spending big bucks.  I don't have a limit on how much I would spend on a watch.  The limit is whether or not I actually have the cash to buy what I want.  Thank god for financing.

Stewart

and when you start to get serious with your new hobby, find yourself yet another hobby. 

is my current mental-limit. A watch or two or three in a lifetime will push you past any limit. Most will fall under that bar... If I still feel as strongly as I do about the RS 2 Open in another year... I will have passed any personal limit by quite a bit. At these levels, one must be SURE.

For any collecting, cars, paintings etc. I don't think it is crazy, very normal. Unless one has unlimited or vast amounts of monetary resources, one has to fiscally prudent, and grows one collection in tandem with ones real wages, that's all, no magic formula. Of course, then again, one can starve and sell a kidney.......

Best, Horo

Thanks for the responses. In moments of weakness I feel it's completely rational and deserved given the hard work and sacrifice its taken to make a good living. then again, i know if I ever saw that much money in the flesh that I would never pull the trigger. In the end, I think it's healthy to have a seemingly "unattainable grail." Which then begs the question, can/should a grail watch be something that's unobtainable?