Horological Meandering

I think Chopard and Cartier have the makings to become the next "great" brand.
They are introducing many new complications and I am becoming more and more attracted to their pieces.
I would be keen to hear your thoughts and comments on the upcoming brands...

Cheers.

Already decades imo the most underappreciated brand.

Only in the beginning after the El Primero (1969) they got what they deserved. They made 1 big mistake. In the 1980"s they made cheap and ugly quartz movements. And another mistake was the previous CEO. Zenith is not BRM !! they are a manufacture who are much more than a fashion brand ' see what he tried to do with the extremely uglu DEFY line)

Anyway, theire new watches are very nice. Take some time, look at the new Elite watches and read a bit about them.

Now, give them the time to create a few new inhouse movements and you'll see what will happen.

They are in par with IWC and JLC !

don't think it would be THE "next great brand".  I also love Zenith's Elite series.  The fact that I bought both the New Vintage 1955 and Ultra Thin is enough proof.  And having hear Mr Dufour spoke in person, I believe he can bring Zenith to new height (but hopefully keeping the watches affordable).

Another brand I thought could rise to new height is Chronoswiss.

...this is very personal, for me the great brands are : Rolex, Patek, AP, Lange, Vacheron, Breguet ( even if i am not a fan of VC and breguet )

The following brands have the potential to join the club, but IMO they are underdogs :

1- FP journe, the most under rated watchmaker IMO. I think its a matter of time before he gets the recognition he deserves.

2- JLC right at the door but never seems to cross the entry. Doing great movements, maybe the best in research, inovations,etc... but unfortunatly there is always something wrong or missing that prevents me from pulling the trigger on a watch i like. Even if they deserves the top podium on the very high complication.

3- Cartier is boosting its watch department. New manufacture, new in-house movements, big marketing and belongs to a strong group ( Richemont ). Plus it has a history, if i am not wrong, they invented the wrist watch. But the jewelry tag on it can be viewed as a burden for many horology lovers.

4- Hublot is seriously booming since 3-4 years. Now more than ever, they are doing their inhouse movements, and especially the high end complications since they "swallowed" BNB. Top management leading it ( J-C Biver ) and huge group behind them, LVMH (helps in opening a boutique in Place Vendome in Paris, right next to Patek Philippe )
Still, it will always feel like an underdog of AP and plumbed by the zillion Limited editions they've made. They boxe in the same category as Richard Mille ( but with a little more credibility ) Too much marketing and trendy, but sooner or later, people wake up.

To conclude, i see marketing boost on brands, but i don't see anybody coming close to the great brands, but those above are the closest

I would also add Blancpain to the manufactures to watch.....

Excellent movements and a quality of case and finishing that puts many to shame....

Cheers

... oldest manufacture out there, and considered with Breguet, Patek, AP, VC, as being part of the big 5.
Interesting topic. Unfortunatly, blancpain has been under the dust for too long, and when J-C Biver revived it, he did a good job, but not enough IMO.

Today its still struggling to find room in this competitve world. I wouldn't bet on Blancpain, even if they have some nice watches, and even an iconic one, the Fifty Fathom.
I jst feel they are not up to it. Hope i am not too harsch with them if you are a fan

a fan but I feel that each of us should express their opinions..



True, Blancpain need to do more, but on the other hand they are doing more
than others.......

We shall see...

Cheers

When I have learned to know my watches which represent all the older great brands, the clearer my opinion comes. With Braguet I am a little bit dissapointed because of some movements which are really nothing special. And in my opinion AP is over-harvesting the RO design and making too many "Limited Editions".

A really great brand which I feel is still under valued is JLC. I would say luckilly because the prices are still mostly on a tolerable level. I guess that the reason why JLC is not often considered as a "Super Brand" is the fact that it is a very big manufacturer with huge diversity of models. What I do not really appreciate in JLC is that they are still using a lot of quarz movements and sometimes making the same watch both as mechanical and quarz. At the same time I fully understand that the goal of the brand is to generate profits to the owners.

Best, Kari

... but i think we can say JLC is under estimated. It is fully estimated by its fans, by those that love the know how, the great movements, etc... The grand public knows JLC mainly through the reverso. Still most people i come across and speak with them about watches, they do not consider it as Patek, Lange, VC, etc... are considered. Its considered as boxing in the same categorie as IWC, which honestly, is not fair to JLC

Anyway, through that angle, i believe brands like FP journe is understated... but will it "break" through big time? Tough question to answer as it's already successful but not as much as it deserves to, IMO

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How do you know which are the great brands? Is it fame, longevity, innovation, design, complications, quality of finishes, overall product quality, customer care? Is it the community built up around the brand? Is it the price consumers are willing to pay for the brand's product? Or is it all about perception, in which case good marketing may be most important.
This message has been edited by relativist on 2010-12-12 11:05:42

A true manufacture with 145 years continuous history, including the birth of the El Primero - enough said! Zenith is already everything brands like IWC want to be!

The technical merit of the product is unquestionable and under the new direction, their collections are now very attractive. So many 'big brands' are actually just well marketed brands - for me, Zenith is the opposite - instead of spending millions to get Kevin Spacey to wear their watches, they spend it developing mind blowing complications like the Zero G.

However, if by the 'next big brand' you mean a potential boom and bust, then it could never be a historical brand like Zenith, it would more likely be a trendy brand, but i have no interest in trendy brands!

Got loads of brand history, thriving jewelry business and accessories business, romance in product and philosophy, strong identifiable products, Richemonts financial clout, and importantly, a renewed zeal n focus on watchmaking.

Great financial stability,great heritage, good brand recognition in the right segments, ability and willingness to invest, not a simple case and material player but have come up with their own very fascinating movements, not faddish with gimmicky case designs, a fairly strong design DNA that is leveraged across their range.  Just that their forum here needs a better moderator.... Lol! Just joking!  JX has done fantastic for Cartier here and the depth of info in the Cartier forum is commendable.

Cartier has the finacial backing of Richmond but the company is also said to generate really good financial results themselves. Cartier is a kind of brand that they can attract the very best designers and I am sure that they have enough bargaining power in Richmond to get the needed technical assistance from the true manufacturers of the group.

Furthermore, Cartier has the needed history of watch making and their brand image is very high.

Best, Kari

With many possible answers, however
I will put Grand Seiko forward.
A better appreication world wide.

as Lexus, the car manufacturer...
Even though their cars are absoloutely wonderful and are some of the most "luxurious", comfortable, and technologically advanced cars out there, i just feel that theres some thing missing.. Its the feeling you get when you drive a nice Mercedes or a Bentley, the Lexus just lacks that "wow" factor, even if it is made better and will last 100 years more aand it will hold its value longer.

I think that the same thing is going on with GS

regards

Marwan

So does my wife.
My brother in law (not a watch guy, but a car fanatic) agrees with you and I see your point.
Although I have the Seiko Space Walk and I do get the wow factor from it. I am going to get the
GS Diver in Titanium for the reasons you mentioned. Better build- lasts forever-etc.
The Spring Drive still amazes me.
Personally (and isn't all watch appreciation personal?) in speaking to the original thread, I hope that as GS is coming the the US that
there will be a wider appreciation of the capability and excellence of the brand.

Zenith has has heck of a first year with a new captain seemingly able to right the ship.

While Monte Blanc after having successfully incorporated Minerva, nods to both classical watchmaking and more avante-garde complications.

Either could turn the corner.....

When I think of the next great brand I think of even smaller companies joining the ranks of the big 5 at least as far as quality. Then they need to stay there(longevity). In this light I think of Moser and Parmigiani as being likely contenders.

i'm with some who Think Zenith would be the Next HOT Brand on the Market .

 they already had a Nice re-start with their New Line-up.!

 Tony