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Pricing Themselves Out??
Just sharing a personal opinion. Do many of you ever thing that some watch manufacturers are pricing themselves out of the market, or at least out of reach for most people. Rolex prices are out of reach for a lot of people as are Patek Philippe, I see a new STEEL Calatrava with the week number indicator is around $33,000 and that's for a STEEL watch, to me that's hard to justify. While I love watches, I am to the point of not buying any more and being quit happy with what I have. Since I am a time only kinda guy a Timex may do just fine (not really but it's a thought) I know the term "affordable"is relative, but I see a lot of watches that really aren't "affordable" anymore.
I tried to open the debate of nowadays prices and my thread has been closed. It seems that I am the only one concern about the new prices for most brands [nt]
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Another question is whether the non-top tier brands (from a public demand perspective) have been pricing themselves out.
PP, Rolex, some APs, RM, etc. seem to be doing fine with their pricing models. Grey market prices at or above MSRP (for many models) easily demonstrates this. And these brands' seeming ability to drive sales to non-halo pieces by leveraging high-demand pieces further speaks to their success.
But for other great brands -- just not as publicly adored -- the ever-increasing prices in the face of poor resale values and aggressive grey market pricing indicates that pricing has become too lofty IMO.
John
I believe the price of a watch
is not so much down to the metal used but the work that has gone into the research and development (in the case of the steel Calatrava - the movement is new), the quality of the movement,dial and the case. A steel Gronefeld Remontoire for example is only 10 percent less than a gold model. I have little doubt that if Rexhep Rexhepi makes a steel Chronometre Contermporain (apart from the one he has been seen wearing!), it would be priced not too far off from the gold and platinum version. And I am pretty sure they will all be sold out as the watch is almost good value for money taking into account the near perfect movement finishing. And we would be talking about a 50k CHF time only steel watch 
Similar to prescription drugs, lots of R&D before FDA approval and hitting the market. [nt]
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Well I think rolex is too cheap
they could ask 20-30% more for their steel professional watches
Just like patek did with the Nautilus
Besides, looking at some other brands ... 8.3k for a submariner is not that much... or maybe all the rest is too expensive 😁
It shows that there are many, many rich and super-rich people out there [nt]
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Don't try to justify any of it!
A rubber strap from any number of brands here could cost $300, while you could get a giant radial tire, designed to drive 100+ MPH and drive for 30,000 miles for less. None of it is justified besides people want it and are willing to pay for it.
I agree - it's a hobby, it's a watch, many people are hooked on it -- there's no other explanation for pricing [nt]
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New strap
I usually buy an aftermarket strap, which could be better, and save the $300 strap as "new".
I always compare it with shoes
A leather panerai or patek strap... 200-300 euro LOL
A good pair of shoes like church, Santoni , Vass or crocket & Jones is between 500 and 700
It takes at least 10 times more time to make the shoes and it needs 30 times more leather
A good strap should cost 30 euro
Those shoes
A good pair of shoes like church, Santoni , Vass or crocket & Jones is between 500 and 700
It takes at least 10 times more time to make the shoes and it needs 30 times more leather
A good strap should cost 30 euro
Those shoes
I was just on the Bell & Ross site looking at replacement straps, there's the OEM rubber that came on it for $125 or an alligator for $360.
I can find alligator for less, and for the rubber I'll cut up an old bicycle inner tube Hell, at those prices maybe I'll consider getting into the strap business.
Hell, at those prices maybe I'll consider getting into the strap business.
Follow the economic gains...
We’ve all seen the charts showing that the gains of recent economic growth are not distributed evenly. Luxury watch pricing reflects this reality.
I remember going to Guy Savoy in Las Vegas in 2009/2010 and being unsettled with the price of the truffle and artichoke soup: 34 USD. That same soup is now almost 75 USD.
So it’s not just watches, but we know this already.
Lots of value to be found in less popular brands and in the secondhand market. However, my expectation is that a popular luxury watch model is going to be less affordable as a “treat” to the average person than it would have been fifteen years ago.
I remember going to Guy Savoy in Las Vegas in 2009/2010 and being unsettled with the price of the truffle and artichoke soup: 34 USD. That same soup is now almost 75 USD.
So it’s not just watches, but we know this already.
Lots of value to be found in less popular brands and in the secondhand market. However, my expectation is that a popular luxury watch model is going to be less affordable as a “treat” to the average person than it would have been fifteen years ago.
Your last sentence exactly!
Rolex for example is not something that you can save for anymore. I mean you can but there will be none to be had.. it has loosely become sort of an application piece.
Sure you can buy pre owned over list yeah but then what if you want that boutique experience to commemorate something special? What if it’s your first Rolex?
Of course there are other brands but then brands like Rolex scratch a particular itch and sometimes there is just no substitute..
On my end, I’d probably bite the bullet and buy a couple of pieces gray market and be done with it. The pieces that I like are pretty generic such that i always tell myself yeah maybe next year.. so now maybe never. Never a good idea to wait too long hahaha!
Sure you can buy pre owned over list yeah but then what if you want that boutique experience to commemorate something special? What if it’s your first Rolex?
Of course there are other brands but then brands like Rolex scratch a particular itch and sometimes there is just no substitute..
On my end, I’d probably bite the bullet and buy a couple of pieces gray market and be done with it. The pieces that I like are pretty generic such that i always tell myself yeah maybe next year.. so now maybe never. Never a good idea to wait too long hahaha!
Very true. But makes me think....
...that if watches go the way of Vegas, we shouldn‘t be surprised if they find the same audience.
It's not the ridicules price level,-
it all the BS that goes into trying to justify it, that really makes me misanthropist.
Jacob
I feel basically the same.
Regardless supply and demand some prices have become ... ridiculous (I.e. Nautilus).
On the other hand I feel that the prices of a new Rolex sports watch are not that bad. The problem seems to be an artificial (?) shortage and as a result the grey market. And also the behavior of some ADs of which I had the „pleasure“ to read here (claiming to buy 1-2 less attractive pieces to be able to get the model you really want).
Best, Thomas
On the other hand I feel that the prices of a new Rolex sports watch are not that bad. The problem seems to be an artificial (?) shortage and as a result the grey market. And also the behavior of some ADs of which I had the „pleasure“ to read here (claiming to buy 1-2 less attractive pieces to be able to get the model you really want).
Best, Thomas
Agreed, ive been noticing this more often as well. Rolex, Omega, Seiko even have started charging huge sums for what is a 60-70s era technology
imagine buying a new 2019 Honda Civic and enjoy its 1970s 1170cc engine and its amazing 2019 price tag and having the pleasure of waiting a couple years to be able to buy, no one would stand for that 
Just my thoughts and observations, meaning to continue a discussion and not to start an arguement so please read it as such.
This has been a huge trend but in watch terms, recycling a movement, snazzing it up a little and adding a new material that in the end still retains COSC specs, nothing changes substanitally because the customer still purchases it and this proves more than anything that these items are just jewellery. Granted there have been advances and new movements some of these have been more due to older movements no longer having the parts provided or the movement sold because the company isnt in the conglomerate that they provide to. Others like Seiko’s Spring Drive or similar have had decent prices that rose to huge prices as the movement became populer.
As for R and D im terms of looks (it doesnt cost that much and i feel companies overblow this to sell a product) I have students at my University who could come up with sharp and edgy designs, the only problem is that most of this edge doesnt sell well, we enjoy the nostaglia of the past with re-editions of old classics and I for one am guilty of being sucked into it because when we look at it, a combination of history, and good looks is what sells a watch, the movement is secondary we are all for the most part satisfied with +/- 10 seconds and won’t be writing emails to producers to get the timekeeping down to +/- 0.001 for an auto. Quartz gave us the accuracy but we abandoned it for the choice of the automatics history and sheer beautiful appearance it has that soul for collectors that a quartz isnt supposed to have.
For the most part I think where the producers should focus on in the future would be to have a revolutionary line with high price tags (high meaning 20k plus) that do something amazing and change the industry. Next a mid tier range of classics that are time tested and finally something more affordable that has the quality yet doesnt skip out on what we know and love.
The most important part of all would be a good after service experience, so many companies have had bad vibes on the forums without having a good and consistent service experience some people wont buy a new piece from them if they are treated poorly or their watch comes back worse than what it left as.
I'd love to hear everyone else's opinion, what do you all think?
Steel PP is always expensive, that's a fact :(
Prices increase every time, new buyers (getting younger and younger) CAN afford these prices, maybe they make tons of money from youtube/instagram/virtual currencies/FX and splurge. OR they borrow money just to buy and flaunt in their social media accounts (I know people who do). Either way, brands will keep rising their prices and those who love watches and cannot keep up will of course be left behind. That's market... I think it's crazy too
Buying a PP is for yr next generation. Hahaha
My kids do not need me to pass them a PP. ; ) But I do have an infatuation for green or blue aquanaut. Hehehe
Interesting topic
I generally share your sentiment. Without even thinking too much about it, I feel that watches are largely over priced basis two things. Firstly, we face steep competition as consumers these days are spoilt for choice with many products including smart watches. Secondly, the demographics are changing too, as older collectors purchase less, younger collectors have different taste/preference/lifestyle or perhaps less enthused with collecting.
Also, sometimes just thinking about how the watch market works, with grey dealers getting access to the pieces that we want most (think Rolex GMT, PP Nautilus etc) and charging massive premiums on top of its list price, it waters down the collecting experience and frankly pushes real collectors towards the exit doors. I don’t print money and my finances are finite. I rather choose another hobby less money intensive, or collect other sorts of life experiences that are much more fulfilling than buying a watch.
On a side note and to be very honest, to say a Rolex sports watch is under priced, frankly I do not know if that is true. How many times in the last two years have you walked into a Rolex boutique and have not been able to purchase a sports watch at list price? I can tell you, 100% of the time I get zero. One other mall down the road however, there will be a grey dealer asking for 20-30% more. Now THAT, is the market price and obviously I don’t think that’s under priced. Rather, it’s over priced.
Great topic of discussion. Enjoyed reading everyone’s input
Also, sometimes just thinking about how the watch market works, with grey dealers getting access to the pieces that we want most (think Rolex GMT, PP Nautilus etc) and charging massive premiums on top of its list price, it waters down the collecting experience and frankly pushes real collectors towards the exit doors. I don’t print money and my finances are finite. I rather choose another hobby less money intensive, or collect other sorts of life experiences that are much more fulfilling than buying a watch.
On a side note and to be very honest, to say a Rolex sports watch is under priced, frankly I do not know if that is true. How many times in the last two years have you walked into a Rolex boutique and have not been able to purchase a sports watch at list price? I can tell you, 100% of the time I get zero. One other mall down the road however, there will be a grey dealer asking for 20-30% more. Now THAT, is the market price and obviously I don’t think that’s under priced. Rather, it’s over priced.
Great topic of discussion. Enjoyed reading everyone’s input