FabR
[Senior Patek Moderator]
26166
This thread is repeating the exact same question of a previous one, and the (strongly) suggested answers again all seem to concern current Indies, so I'm moving it to the AHCI section :-)
I'm sure most watch enthusiasts agree that brands with over a hundred years history can't be compared with current watchmakers whose work only spans a few years --- no matter their technical ability, which in certain instances is pretty remarkable! But I think that if, in this thread, our members are invited to freely express their opinions on the latter brands, then it might lead to a constructive conversation.
As it was already pointed out, let's however keep this as a unique thread, rather than a series of identical ones. Also, when opening this type of thread to request feedback, please let's not express bias for or against certain brands (i.e., Vacheron or Patek or any brand with a significant history on one side....and specific small Indies like MB&F on the other), so members can freely express their opinions and, if they so desire, even provide a ranking among the Indies they currently enjoy the most.
I turn over the "mod powers" to Mike now who's the section moderator, but I hope this way the thread can make some sense for everyone and lead to an intellectually honest conversation 
Cheers, FabR.
YOU Decide: The Modern Holy Trinity
With 2022 upon us, it is time we within horology decide a new Holy Trinity as the current list is outdated. With a nod to many decades ago, let us remember the Old-School Holy Trinity for its relevance when it was first decided upon by ??????? many decade...
my top list for new trinity
1) Laurent Ferrier (even if still underated these days), but Class & Classic 2) MB&F (innovative and modern iterations) 3) David Candaud great & unknown for most then etc GF, FPJ,KV (but overly rated, hyped) The ORIGINAL Trinity remains to me: PP, VC ...
Did you not post something similar a few days ago?!
Anyway, I disagree that MB&F should be part of any holy trinity or Top 5. Why I say that was that I was on a zoom call with Max Busser a few months back and when I asked him about the accuracy of his watches, he stated that they were about +8 -2 secon...
Sham1 I fully
agree with you that MB&F are not very accurately regulated. That The Reason why I did not buy one. BUT, if you know a Great Watchmaker who could/accept to regulate your MB&F, based on your wrist tests (after official warranty period) you could be Happy ;-...
Thank you Patrick for your feedback
But can't MB&F regulate their watches rather than me having to send the watches to a 'great' watchmaker?? And I did send the LM101 back for them to regulate so surely a company as accomplished as MB&F can regulate a watch to bring out its maximum capabili...
Yes, We're Getting Brand Names Now
MB&F aside as in the end the votes choose, forum members will decide / vote as we whittle down to eventually reach the top three. This is just Round One and thanks to everyone for chiming in. The great news is virtually everyone agrees the Modern Holy...
a copy from what I answered on another site :-)
Tbh, One brand is not yet mentioned and it’s probably the only one that really deserves it. Parmigiani!! Please do look at them and read their history. Look at the manufactures that belong under the parmigiani/Sandoz foundation umbrella and you will under...
as it was a reply on another post earlier ...
Those brands I didn't agree with were mentioned in replies on that other site. But of course those are just my thought / feelings so I could be very wrong ;-)
Lol at some of your comments! I agree though
Aside from the fact that I think this holy trinity business is nonsense, to be a significant BRAND there needs to be some range and decent volume. Otherwise we are talking about actual watches and watchmakers
I do not know where
classify L&S - Old trinity number 4 choice? - New trinity number 2 choice between LF and MB&F? ;-)
my personal take on it....
IMHO Trinity itself is a school of thought, where the names are 'fixed' & not changeable for many decades... Rather I think there should be no 'trinities' but rather the 'most deserving' at a given time. one common underlying point on my 3 choices...these...
This thread is repeating the exact same question of a previous one, and the (strongly) suggested answers again all seem to concern current Indies, so I'm moving it to the AHCI section :-)
I'm sure most watch enthusiasts agree that brands with over a hundred years history can't be compared with current watchmakers whose work only spans a few years --- no matter their technical ability, which in certain instances is pretty remarkable! But I ...
Thank You Thank You
And yes, if WPS mods want to 'take over from here' that'd be great. I look fwd to the Modern Holy Trinity as it seems most agree the current one is a bit outdated. Frankly, I'd be elated to let the pros we trust here on WPS take charge.
Not a problem -- even if, like all watch enthusiasts, I admire brands with a long and important history of contributions to horology, frankly I've never been too concerned with the concept of a "watch trinity," whichever its membership.
But hopefully this will keep the focus on the watchmakers you are referring to Enjoy the thread.
Thx
A most humble thanks. Agree with you on who cares about a Trinity (to some extent, read on please). On one level i don't at all care about some stodgy outdated Trinity, yet a few of my longtime friends who recently (after MANY years of knowing me) want to...
The trinity needs to be expanded
Honestly it's tough to choose only 3 brands, so I'll list 6 in no particular order: Lange MB&F Journe Voutilainen Dufour Daniels/Smith
Bring science to contention
Expert’s opinion is considered one of the lowest levels of scientific evidence, and if such a big question is to be addressed with any rigour, in my opinion it should be done so scientifically. 1. The criteria and timespan by which watch makers are going ...
You're Hired :)
Am sure no matter how we slice it, analyze it, break it down for factual accuracy under an electron microscope, there are those who may feel... you know. So it is good we're discussing this. It seems the vast majority agree it needs to be updated to stay ...
Many, many thanks.
Let's see how things develop as there's quite a bit of agreement overall, broadly speaking. Also agree it needs to be broader than just independents. The tricky parts ahead get more careful consideration. Thx again, much appreciated.
One idea is to look at last 20 years of GPHG awards, and see which 3 brands have won the most awards. It is at least an objective approach.
Personally and subjectively, I would nominate Lange, FP Journe and Rolex as the new and modern Trinity. HNY!
Excellent Point About What Some May Consider To Be Pay-For-Play
Am very humbled, and grateful, for my life's experiences. Here's why: Within the luxury audio sector there's a 'type' of an award by ____ where manufacturers must PAY UP to even be considered, then they HAVE TO PAY MORE to use (license) the award company'...
Yeah, a few brands skipped, but the participation of indie brands have been strong.
GPHG has been a great venue for the independent brands to get their names out. Journe captured many awards early on to establish their position as a top independent watch maker. Kari, Gronefeld, Habring2, Akrivia, Kudoke, Petermann Badat and others all sa...
Great Post
And fully agree, as you said "Nothing is perfect but the GPHG has been improving to include more industry members in the voting process." Like you, I too learned from their enthusiast efforts. My previous post was a bit conflicted emotionally on a persona...
Thanks for your notes and I could clearly see your passion!
It is a meaningful and fun effort to explore and see if a clear consensus may be reached for the new trinity. That was why I chimed in and offered my votes too. Thanks a lot for taking the lead and devoting your time!
It's a nice idea until you look at the brands with the most GPHG wins. GPHG is a little bubble within a bubble....
1. AP 2. Piaget 3. VC 4. Van Cleef 5. Tag
Your points well taken.
I did not realize that AP has won so many times. I just thought that Tudor has won too many times. If we look at the “Aiguille D’or” Grand Prix, only FP Journe has won it three times. For the “Men’s Watches” category, Voutilainen has won 4 times and FP Jo...
Halter, Voutilainen and Habring2
Each constituent of a holy trinity must bring a different characteristic to the whole. that's the essence of it. this is a very plausible grouping that brings outrageous design complexity and originality, peerless finish and craftsmanship, and unusual aff...
QUESTION: Production Numbers
How many timepieces did each manufacturer make in 1960? Patek Philippe Audemars Piguet Vacheron Constantin
Is doing away with the idea of a ‘holy trinity’ an option?
There is so much high quality work across all of watchmaking that an exclusive club of three seems to be a silly conceit.
After much discussion...
...with friends and posts across two discussion boards, it is a task well above my pay grade. Perhaps left to pros /mods here, or perhaps a few magazines can come together and find consensus. Imho someone should update the list as it provides 1960s inform...
Holy Trinity? Croton Nivada Grenchen
Sorry...I just had to do it... I love this watch. ...
The Old PP, AP And VC Holy Trinity
I have a few simple questions: Who chose which brands were considered the "Holy Trinity" back in 1960s? What was the criteria used back in the 1960, and do you feel the same criteria should be used today? This list has not been updated in over 60 years, a...
YOU Pick The Third Choice For The Modern Holy Trinity
Well, i've emailed a few magazine editors and whatnot. So far not a single person knows how the Old School Holy Trinity came to be . No one has even bothered to know what the criteria were at the time. No one knows who chose the trinity(!). From the repli...
After MUCH Contemplation...
After much thought, sure, you classic guys win. Let's keep the vintage Holy Trinity and only recommend those brand names so the uneducated, or easily convinced due to a lack of critical thinking skills, to stay within their lane. Those brands are what are...