ArmisT
8703
Are Indie production times a barrier?
Given the collective experience and wisdom of this forum, I needed to ask your perspective on the following. I know we all have a strong appreciation for Voutilainen and a host of other independent brands, but I have been trying to reconcile the interest in placing an order with the risk of long wait times to receive an order. Besides the lifetime wait for a Kikuchi Nakagawa piece (which is no longer open to orders), I didn’t realize that many (all?) of these other independents also conservatively have a waiting time of 3+ years, with Voutilainen being ~8 years(!) Clearly, the wait times are in part a function of rising popularity and strong client interest. However, I’m curious if long wait times specifically have prevented any of you interested clients from placing orders?
A lot can change in a year, a month, a day…and that’s not just for the client but for the watchmaker as well. So I could only imagine any such order requiring a backup of some sort, perhaps.🤔 In reality, there may already be a process in place to account for the uncertainties of life, such as requiring to list an emergency contact(s). Have any of you considered the uncertainty of “time” a barrier to pursuing an Indie?
Source: Voutilainen website
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Are Indie production times a barrier?
Given the collective experience and wisdom of this forum, I needed to ask your perspective on the following. I know we all have a strong appreciation for Voutilainen and a host of other independent brands, but I have been trying to reconcile the interest ...
Yes, I cancelled a voutilainen order
A few people said they were quoted one number and the wait has been significantly longer, which I didn’t really want to deal with. They are really nice watches though. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a long quote if it’s accurate. With that said...
At my age, 8 years is too long...
Even if I am still alive, my tastes (and finances) could change a lot by then.
People wait like her for an aquanaut, nautilus or steel Daytona
So why would you not want for a voutilainen On this forum the average time to get for example a steel aquanaut 5167 won’t be 8 or 10 years cause most here have an AD they know pretty well But I have friends without the right connections that are already 8...
I have two watches on order for Q3 2028
...and a few others to arrive before that. A good watch now comes with about a year wait time, but more than that is not fun. I'm not doing that anymore. Yes, I appreciate the watch and the horology and the story and all of that, but part of me feels like...
Thanks for this reflection. Do they explain the reason for delays?
I don’t know what staffing is like, so I imagine sourcing certain materials or parts can be common causes of delay.
After winning the GPHG
their suppliers decided to up the pricing to a point of non-viability. This would be less of a problem to a Swiss company.
The disadvantages of a late birth…
I.e. not getting independents when they were more reasonably priced and faster to get 😊🤷🏻♂️ 8 years is pushing it IMHO but I suppose he might find it harder to ramp up production than a much larger brand 🤷🏻♂️
I actually love waiting for a watch!
It makes me appreciate it more. Such luxury items should never come easy so anything from five to ten years is reasonable for me. Also, it would allow me to save up for the watch instead of planning a bank heist!
I don’t mind waiting if I get accurate estimates.
I don’t like it when they constantly move the goal post like KV. I have a Frodsham on order and they told me it would be around 7 years. It’s like great I know that’s way down the pipeline. But if I’m being told this year then another year comes and goes ...
I don't mind the wait
one way to deal with it is to have planned completion of other watches every calendar year, so that you have something to look forward to in a shorter span of time. I placed an order for the Vingt-8 in 2023 which has an ETA of 2028. 5 years are a long tim...
Kari now has dedicated
Customer Service representative. I followed up with them on the ETA and so far no change to my 2028 delivery. Kari is confident of delivery by then, they told me.
Kari is now 11 years
At least that's what I was told by several collectors who met him in Dubai.
Deposit is 30%, so he definitely gets paid.
$100,000 watch $30,000 deposit $30,000 becomes about $77,811 after 10 years at 10% annual compounding which is what the S&P has roughly returned
My threshold is 2-3yrs..
With some buffer for delays which is quite common. Like many have said, a lot of things can happen in months, years. Kari is 60+ YO, 8 or 11 yrs wait time seems pushing a little.
Well worth the wait.
Although the longest I have waited for a watch was 3 years. A similar thing has happened with custom sportfish builders in the US, several are 7-10 years out.
Agree with most of the sentiments here. One positive I will add is that at least for KV the deposit while substantial also locks in the price of your watch.
Given the insane price hikes over the last few years along with inflation, I feel like KV too is putting something forward by offering to set the price for a delivery over a decade from now. From a business perspective that is kinda crazy, as crazy as it ...
I like to quote “ the time is now”
This is not rocket science, it’s the same old mechanics from the last 3 centuries. I wish I had these millionaire’s problems, but I never liked to queue and wait. I’m wondering where’s the pleasure in a 10 years wait🤔
Not for me.
Taste changes... I have only ordered one watch (15 months wait IIRC), and I was already leaning my collection on a different direction before the watch was made. For me, there are simply too many beauties available for purchase (and enjoyment) rightaway, ...
Voutilainen will have a going concern issue
if he always delays or not delivering his watches. With an annual production of 50 pcs per year, and being vertically integrated, a lot of his staff will lose their jobs over time if Kari doesn't deliver. From my own experience, after paying 20% deposit i...
It seems to me that a growing reputation and demand can be a double edged sword.
In the end, it appears it’s not so easy keeping a indie business running smoothly. I don’t know how FPJ compares, but they keep production low with seemingly shorter wait times??
FPJ produces 1000 mechanical watches
per year. The main difference between FPJ and KV is one is mostly CNC except for some higher-end models, and 1 is artisanal where more time is required to finish/manufacture. I would rather be in FPJ position from a business standpoint.
