Montrachet
14
Some help on the low end of the spectrum and some light reading ...
It is my understanding that it is "easier" on a manual wind watch to have "sub-seconds", in that the second hand is directly attached to the fourth wheel pinion. Indirectly driven second hands must be manufactured to the highest degree (ie. Richard Lange) or their tends to be "slack" in the movement of the second hand. It is also my understanding that the problem with hacking and manual wind movement is the physical stopping of the balance wheel as opposed to "disengaging" it from the power train, although i have no technical expertise on this subject.
Search: The Pursuit of Center Seconds by Walt Odets. It may provide some insight.
Also search: ETA 2801. It is my understanding that it represents a manual wind + hacking version of the 2824. The movement seems to be in very limited supply and very few manufactures use it. However, it is found in my limited edition Stowa Flieger.
Good luck with your hunt. I share your appreciation of a manually wound, center seconds timepiece.
Center seconds hand or sub-seconds hand?
Hello all, I trust you all had a great week, and now look forward to the weekend! Recently i have been gaining a very passionate interest in center seconds hand watches, particularly those of the manual winding nature, and even better if they come with a ...
You alreadty know the answer... Duometre à Q.L.
Double hacking seconds. The central and the foudroyante. Unique. Best, Nicolas.
Ahh yes!
How could i have forgotten that mon ami?! But another look at it, and i remember that there is no platinum, nor SS! Just the golds! But yes, it is INDEED very unique! Maybe i should have a closer look at this! Merci for the suggestion! Stephen
You didn't say you needed one in platinum, in your question. :)
The Duometre à Chronographe has a central hacking second, too, and has a platinum case. Best, Nicolas.
Yes indeed i didnt say that!
Of course, how could i forget the Original duometre! But the thing is, i'm really trying to find a simple, time ONLY hand wound that hopefully is in a more affordable daily package such as SS. Thank you though, for reminding me to never stray too far from...
to the hacking...
I have always assumed it was based on reading accuracy. It is quite difficult to read the average sub-second dial with any degree of accuracy, so someone who wanted to set their watch with sub-second (timing, not dial ) accuracy via hacking would probably...
Yup indeed
I know that center seconds hand watches are definitely more legible and accurate too, as they often have each "second" between the indexes divided into even more markings. Cheers Stephen
If you can accept vintage and indirect center seconds...
How about a VC Chronometre Royale with cal 1008/BS? Best Regards, Dan
Wow!
Hi there Dan, Just browsed the internet for some shots of the watch you suggested, it is such a treasure! Didn't know that VC had such gorgeous pieces in their past! Simple, puristic, it is a beauty to behold! Let me do a little snooping, the indirect cen...
Hi Stephen, I knew nothing but the best would be of interest to you, :-)
These CRs were considered one of the best of the 1950s era, which IMO makes it one of the best of ANY era. VC's manual wind Chronometre Royale is based on the JLC 478/BS. VC cal 1008/BS is the center-seconds version and the BS stands for "Balancier Stop",...
Hi, dshao, does BS stands for Balancier stop, or for Breguet Spiral?
I say that because on the JLC movement, which was used by VC for their Chronometre royal, the SB meant: Spiral Breguet. It would be interesting to know... Best, Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-07-09 02:01:38
Hi Nicholas, for me - this is a conundrum
I've always thought it was Balance Stop / Balancier Stop, as I've read this in numerous articles and posts about this movement and CR. Some of these articles have been written by our mutual friends Alex G. and WHL - whose expertise on all things VC I defe...
I'm in doubt, my friend...
Sure about nothing, here. Just a deduction from what I know about the JLC movement. Not necessarily the same meaning for VC. I will have to dig out. Best! Nicolas.
Thanks for the detailed info!
Hi there Dan, I come into work Monday and get all these beautiful photos, you made my day! It is interesting to know about this rather unknown watch to me, as i didn't look into vintages prior to my search for a center seconds watch, of which there are ma...
not so sure
but the statement : " According to someone, it is far more difficult to create a movement with a sub-seconds hand rather than a center seconds." Appears to be wrong, I suspect the exact opposite! Putting all the time-telling functions on a single axis, th...
It is even better to hear from you again my Mein Freund!
Amery! I trust that all is well on your side! See, that is what i thought as well! But the person insisted it to be so! Maybe now he will read this and re-think! I know about those counter-clockwise crown operations! And boy do i hate them! It's kinda lik...
I think you are right about center seconds being harder
but I am surprised that someone claims the opposite - who ? In support of what you write, I read somewhere that the Patek considered the center seconds not just difficult, but as a complication, and had it done externally for a while. I will try to track ...
That is interesting
Guten Tag Andreas, It would be nice if you can find that citation. Patek did a very good job in their vintage watches with the 27 SC movements, and yes i can see why they would elevate it to a position of being a complication, in it's own right! Tschuss S...
I think you should investigate the Gerber dead seconds complication
The Gerber model 41 lets you have dead seconds or sweep seconds by activating a button on the case at 2 o'clock. It's a central seconds system and a very unusual and fun complication. I would suggest that the location of second hands is driven by other th...
Fully in agreement
Watchmakers are just about the most humble folks iv met in my life. Cheers Stephen
It is a nice timepiece
But unfortunately for me, an automatic! I am looking only for hand wounds! But great suggestion nonetheless! Thanks! Stephen
Just ask him for a hand-wind
Since he makes the 3-rotor adaptor and some of his watches are manual wind, no doubt he could do the watch without it. And no doubt he would. Now if it has to be platinum, that's another matter! Cheers Cazalea
As easy as asking!
I had thought so, since he is an independent. Thanks for this, i shall see what i can do about it! Also, i don't mind this NOT being platinum! Cheers Stephen
It's not that automatic movements hack, it's that ETA automatics hack.
Patek and F. Piguet automatic movements, among others, don't hack.
Ahh yes, thanks for pointing this out
Would you happen to know why is it then that at ETA, they seem to make all autos hack, but not their manuals? Is it that difficult? Or is there another reason behind it, technical or otherwise? Cheers Stephen
It all depends...
My preference depends on what type of watch it is... For an observation and military watches where accuracy readings are important, I would absolutely require a large second hand. I am actually surprised that vintage Panerais had their small second hands,...
I think this reflects the people's thinking bro
As for the Italians, they were always as "serious" as their neighbours up north, and so for them "approximateness" is more than acceptable, as can be seen in their works even till today ( In Tokyo where both Germans and Italian things are well loved, you ...
Excellent comparison...
I do find it odd that we compare German and Italian things. We love them both so much, yet we find them completely different in personalities. This is an interesting psychological condition in which we all contradict ourselves from time to time. I think t...
Some help on the low end of the spectrum and some light reading ...
It is my understanding that it is "easier" on a manual wind watch to have "sub-seconds", in that the second hand is directly attached to the fourth wheel pinion. Indirectly driven second hands must be manufactured to the highest degree (ie. Richard Lange)...
Great Flieger!
Hello there Mon! Thank you for sharing with me your watch! It is very beautiful and i read up on it, its not at all like the current regular offering from Stowa that uses an automatic movement, even though the design is exactly the same! How i wish i knew...
Puh, Stephen, this hurts!
I just started to overcome my GS anniversary edition disease that had befallen me (for the modest, almost affordable SS version), when reading your post with the lovely pics of this watch opened the old wound again. 35,8 mm would just be perfect for my wr...
Entschuldigung Mein Freund!
Guten Tag! Did not mean for any of that! But it is a very wonderful piece as i will testify in a few months time, hopefully! Tschuss Stephen
Gerne, Stephen!
Not your fault, obviously - but my pp (personal problem). Beste Grüsse, anaesdoc
Thank you for reminding me of Seiko.
Yes, those watches are very beautiful and pure. I have admired several of the Seiko offerings throughout my history in fine watches. As you might know, the distribution of Grand Seiko is very limited in the United States. However, I have family in Arizona...
I know that you will not be disappointed
I only wish that you are able to compare all 3 versions of the watch, or if not at least the SS version. It is a beauty and gives more than it asks to be paid for. Cheers Stephen
