KIH
[Purist]
12054
Hard to answer some of your question.
AP is more popular in many market even in Japan - in terms of popularity or well-known-ness, as a high-end watch brand. But as for sales, I believe in many markets, Hublot sells more than AP. As for PAM, like I said, I do NOT understand why people buy PAM at all, so I can't answer why Japanese people with small wrist buy them. But I see many in the financial market like PAM - maybe because it is flashy. So is Frank Muller. It is so hard not to wonder when I see those in the wrists of the counterparty I do business with. Not because of their taste (everyone can have his own taste and it is none of my business), but because those people makes millions of dollars every year and why PAM, why Frank Muller? Anyway, no offense to those PAM/FM fans.
Next big thing... It is true that the mass market level is easily influenced by those sports or celebrity ad column. Hublot is closer to mass market while AP is aimed to be in the hi-end level where people do care the size of the watch - just my guess. For mass market, the next big thing may be those celebrity stuff - as always. For higher end, I don't know. Rick people buy whatever looks interesting. Patek and Lange as well as (higher-end) JLC have stable fans.
Indies. I haven't met anyone with Gautiers. I have seen a few with Voutilainen. I have seen one Urwerks in the wild, but never MBF. Even an AD said they have never seen it sold from their store, either. As SJX analyzed, Japanese market do not generally appreciate Avant Garde style - neither do I. But again, look at the success of Dufour. If you make something that htis the itchy point, then this market will pour enormous amount of money into it. I personally would not mind owning Simplicity or similar level of independent even if it is similar in design IF the finish is as good, if not better, as Simplicity. Like SJX said, Japanese are "detail oriented" or anal collectors. Of course, the movement must be original and convincing, too.
Ken
Japan and watch collecting
In the past some of the most compelling limited edition and piece unique watches were made for Japan. Amongst other models Patek Philippe made several Calatrava watches for Japan that I know of, and probably more than I am unaware of. IWC too has done num...
Great post, SJX...
...and I echo your sentiments of support for Japan. I, too, hope for a speedy return to normality and prosperity for all those affected by the natural disaster. I am not at all surprised by the Japanese taste in watches, based on the limited editions you ...
Could not agree more SJX.
I recently returned from a trip to Japan and experienced just the kind of respect and enthusiasm for watches, both new and vintage, of which you speak. I was fortunate to go to several large ADs as well as the vintage stores in Nakano Boardwalk which are ...
Great post.
Having spent a significant part of my life in Japan, I agree with many of your astute observations. Thanks.
Another great post SJX...
It's sad though, seeing such great watches in such small limited editions. Cheers, -- Richard.
Interesting read, SJX. Thx. It is ingrained in their culture and its..
..people, the strive and determination for perfection through hardwork, great attention to detail and meticulosity.. and all these are probably transformed into their refined tastes for refined watches. Samurai, honor, loyalty, anime, Gundam, paintings, t...
They will rise again
And they will rise fast! They have the people, the know how, the money and strong corporations. cen@jkt
Japanese are strong!
They are a tasteful and friendly culture! We've visited Japan numerous times and have nothing but praise for the people there. They go out of their way to help others and are very orderly and civilized. Because Japanese focus in quality, art, tradition an...
Thank you SJX, I am touched.
.. not all seem to agree with your assessment above, but thank you so much for your kind words mentioned here. Japan, of course had lots of help from others, too, to come here. I may start translating Chronos Japan - would anyone be interested in buying? ...
in Depth view SJX
i do believe that japanese taste is a basic block which one should observe if enrichment of taste is the aim. Faisal
Great thread SJX...................
And also I too would like to add my thoughts for the people of Japan. I too hope that they are soon able to start moving forward after the terrible events of the past week. Ken, PM sent Regards Tony
a lovely way to pay homage to Japan
thanks a lot. I echo your sentiments wholeheartedly. Best Andreas
Great post...
When I'm in Japan I always drool over the limited edition Omegas that your market gets. Throughout this incredible disaster, one clear trait of the Japanese people is to collectively, with amazing calm, work together to overcome hardship. I have nothing b...
From your recent visit?
Thanks SJX for the update of the horological scene from your visit to Japan. There are always quirky small editions to be found there. One of my favourite watches is a Limited Edition found at WAKO store in Ginza, just out walking alone, one day in Tokyo....
very handsome watch mate
But is seiko B as printed on the dial? And I assume the number correspond with date of birth? Best, Horo
Seiko Brightz
is a line of watches higher than the starting Seiko level. That is the B symbol. WAKO is the luxury department store on the corner of Ginza. It is the Hattori family store and as we know, that family founded and still has a family member as CEO of Seiko, ...
Fantastic insight into Japanese collecting
Is it still Langes and Journes and Dufours still? Are they into Urwerks and MBFs? If there are so many limited editions created just for the Japanese market, are they essentially buying limited editions because of the rarity, or are they looking for funda...
My take, based on my short experience here
Lange, FPJ are still big here. But Patek is also big. Dufour has made just one model and I can't say it is "hot" now - 130 out of 200, and one collector has 8 of them. It WAS big hit. They buy LEs, as a plus to their collections. If the regular models don...
Dufour consistency
A collector with eight Dufour's?! I would love his insights on the consistency and reproducibility of appearance and finish across his collection. I have asked this question in years past on the AHCI Forum but it is difficult to answer because there are f...
I can answer only partially.
At one occasion I was with a gentleman who has had one Simplicity and several years later he got the second one fresh from Mr. Dufour. We compared them, with another watch connoisseur - both pieces went through three pairs of eyes (owner, expert, and me) ...
thks for chiming in and sharing...
In your view, why is AP less popular then Hublot? In most markets, it seems to me its the reverse? As for the small wrist theory...I agree with you, but wouldn't that affect Pams and Bangs sale as well, unless they are bought not for wearing, but for coll...
Hard to answer some of your question.
AP is more popular in many market even in Japan - in terms of popularity or well-known-ness, as a high-end watch brand. But as for sales, I believe in many markets, Hublot sells more than AP. As for PAM, like I said, I do NOT understand why people buy PAM...
Ken, PAM Radiomir is quite nice and closer to a classic. Will you buy it although..
..it may house an ordinary Unitas movement. I am not even looking at PAM in house movements. Why dont u like Pam? I guess maybe personal preference. I was gonna add that PAM is very bigin Hongkong and i thought Japan too. Comparison of popularity between ...
You are correct.
AP is more embraced or worshiped as more higher end brand, but the target is different for AP and Hublot and Hublot is closer to the mass market, also in terms of price point. As for why I am not so fond of PAM. It is just too big. 40 or 42mm is sometimes...
thats interesting Ken. I guess its the culture. Why do i wear my watches outside my cuffs?
..because i dont wear french cuffs and my shirts are not custom made. I dont intentionally wear them exposed from my cuffs, just that i dont like my cuffs to be too loose, i like them closely wrapping my wrists but comfortable. The only watch which can hi...
it's more like my personal preference
...because there are many who shows watches beyond sleeve in here, too. I have tried 048 - 40mm PAM, but didn't like it... So, I DID try I guess I am just a conservative chicken when it comes to what watch to wear We have each preference and taste and tha...
Excellent conversation....
and a lot of highly interesting information I did not know previously. Thank you! Best, Filip
great analysis.
I can actually understand the allure of PamRooBang actually. Used to buy quite a few of them. Beyond collecting the latest and newest...there is also value retention and the relative liquidity of PamRooBangs, and the scalabilityof these I.e....moving up t...
Maybe, maybe not...
The today's high-end lover/collectors seem to have entered this world from "inside". Some I asked or have met mentioned that they started having interest in watches from the internet or books or magazines. Then they started studying more to details - hist...
got it
It seems quite universal approach. Most of the collectors start off with affordable brands eg, Zenith and/or models of a brand, eg IWC spitfire to Big pilot and then "scale" up, either in complications eg modular chrono to QP or gravitate to one of the Bi...
My thoughts
Classical watches do well but avant garde ones like Urwerk and MB&F much less so. Large watches like the Offshore sell less well than in other markets. At the mass market level, limited editions are created to eke out growth in a large and saturated marke...
excellent point
But what about the younger generation, who hasn't even bought the "regular stuff"?? Have they jumped straight to ltd editions? Also a friend of mine who is in luxury trade also opine that the japanese market, despite market saturation, then to buy the big...
Thanks for posting these! Here are two other
examples: In 1998 IWC produced an edition of their classic Mark 12 pilot watch in a platinum case, approximately 500 examples. Most of these watches featured a blue (rather than black) dial, however within this edition they created for Japan distribution ...
both editions are excellent SteveG. Love the..
IWC with full numerals, nice outstanding crown, and a bit of Speake Marin Picadilly hour hands. Excellent choice to use platinum giving a nice weigth to the smaller diameter Mark series. And the JLC Reverso salmon dial looks very tasty and exclusive. Like...
Nice!
Your collection and photos have been my inspiration for a long time... Very nice indeed! Thank you. Ken
That....
special edition Reverso really is outstanding! You've got two completely different watches on a single strap . Both sides look excellent. Cheers, Filip
Thanks a lot SJX ! My all-time fav Japanese watch is this one:
The Credor Sonnerie. Why ? Because it is a pure Japanese watch, inspired by the Japanese culture with a beautiful horological work which shows all the skills from Micro Artist Studio. This watch doesn't strike like a swiss watch, it strikes like Japanese ...