Certifications are intended to demonstrate facts...

Jul 18, 2019,04:51 AM
 

...and not judgments. They mean that the thing being certified has been specifically verified to be true by the certifier. As such, evidence is required to support the fact.

Thus, “our watches are great because we are great” certifications are rather vacuous. But “we subject our watches to a specific and identified protocol of adjustment, inspection, and testing over a 1000-hour period” means more, as long as we believe them.

Third-party certifications come in a couple of flavors—those where the third party established the test protocol and the standard and the certification is done by the manufacturer, and those where the certification is made by a third party after their own testing. There is a combination, where the product is type-tested—the third party tests one production example only. (Most product testing is type testing—UL for electrical products, Snell Memorial Foundation for helmets, etc.)

Chronometer certification is an example of full third-party certification. COSC is the third party, and they test every unit that receives the certification to a published standard. METAS, which I have not explored, seems to be a self-certification to a defined standard.

The Geneva Seal is a third-party standard, mostly for finishing, by the Canton of Geneva, but it is awarded based on self-certification. I do not know if the Cantonale government audits self-certifications, but I doubt they do so consistently if they do so at all. But it can only be applied to work done in Geneva.

Cartier, for example, built a workshop on the top floor of their Geneva boutique where they make their haute-horlogerie pieces receiving the Geneva Seal. Most Cartier watches don’t, and are made at their manufacture in La Chaux-de-Fonds.

Nobody really believes that Patek-Philippe is cheating on their Geneva Seal certification, of course, but it also suggests that Patek really doesn’t need it to bolster their reputation or support their price, in the way that Cartier might. Rather like Rolex and COSC and the somewhat derided self-applied term “superlative”, which was the motivation for Omega to establish their METAS certification—COSC was no longer sufficient to distinguish the product and justify its price.

I have not explored the Fleurier certification, but I suspect it is a self-certification limited to the Sandoz-owned companies clustered there, including Parmigiani and Vaucher.

Sellita subjects some of their movements to a special test protocol developed with Richemont (Cartier), and these are marked with the little-publicized Grandjean seal. I have seen that seal on Sellita movements used by IWC, and on Baume & Mercier Capeland models. The protocol itself is not disclosed that I’ve been able to find, but I think it’s much more than the Sellita worker looks out the window to the Cartier manufacture (which is just across the rail tracks) and bows.

I don’t think any of the Swiss industry self-certifications are vacuous—that just doesn’t fit with the Swiss sense of propriety. They mean something. But they don’t always disclose the details of what they mean, or whether they are individually or type-tested. So, they are not always effective in justifying a higher price point, which is their raison d’etre.

—Rick

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Thoughts on certifications?

 
 By: jleno : July 17th, 2019-21:29
I'm curious what the general opinions on certifications are aside from COSC. Geneva seal, Patek seal, Qualite Fleurier, JLC 1000 hours, etc...Who's got the most stringent? Do they differ in any interesting ways? Or are they all just BS? added image for in...  

What I like about COSC—and Omega’s METAS—testing is that they refer to a quantitative performance metric that’s highly relevant to me: the watch’s ability to keep accurate time.

 
 By: ektaylor : July 18th, 2019-03:47
The other metrics are concerned with levels of finishing (Geneva seal) or general functionality (JLC 1000 hrs). So they really all mean very different things.

Agree that chronometry certifications are generally useful

 
 By: jleno : July 18th, 2019-14:07
I'm quite surprised that so many high end watches come with no accuracy specifications whatsoever. Especially ones with chronometry complications like torbillons.

Certifications are intended to demonstrate facts...

 
 By: rdenney : July 18th, 2019-04:51
...and not judgments. They mean that the thing being certified has been specifically verified to be true by the certifier. As such, evidence is required to support the fact. Thus, “our watches are great because we are great” certifications are rather vacu... 

Testing to the Grand Seiko standard

 
 By: cazalea : July 18th, 2019-08:34
I have been to a number of Swiss workshops including V-C, JLC, BP, PP, Fleurier, etc. Everyone tests their watches to some degree - though JLC explains their Master Control 1000 hr test as one of the best. I have the best pictures to share with you from m...  

Thanks for your writeup!

 
 By: jleno : July 18th, 2019-14:02
Fascinating to see how much testing goes into a Grand Seiko! From your visits to other manufacturers, were there any other notable qualities of the certifications or testing processes across brands? I'm particularly interested in better understanding the ... 

Finishing is much more subjective; staring with Geneva Seal

 
 By: cazalea : July 18th, 2019-15:36
The GENEVA SEAL We give you the 12 criteria, reminding also that it must be created in the Canton of Geneva: Compliance with the standards outlined by the Office for the Optional Inspection of Genevan Watches must include the quality of all parts and comp... 

Fleurier Quality

 
 By: cazalea : July 18th, 2019-15:46
Rules for obtaining the FQF Quality seal The "QUALITE FLEURIER" quality label applies to mechanical watches and finished watches, whether or not these form part of an item of jewellery, that are produced in series in Switzerland. To be awarded the "QUALIT... 

Omega METAS

 
 By: cazalea : July 18th, 2019-16:08
DOUBLE CERTIFICATION: METAS AND COSC To own a MASTER CHRONOMETER is to be confident that your watch has been certified not once – but twice! The 8 stringent METAS tests your timepiece must face to earn the title MASTER CHRONOMETER can only begin with move...