Oscillon comes to mind...

Oct 31, 2019,05:26 AM
 

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A question for the experts ...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-03:54
... so I was thinking about independents that recently (a) have created in-house movements and (b) haven't used CNC machinery in the process. I'm assuming this list is growing smaller by the year due to the perfection that can be achieved via CNC ... but ... 

Roger W Smith uses CNC machines

 
 By: Spangles - Mr. Tabby : August 10th, 2019-07:02
Loomes in England actually custom built an English-made CNC machine as one further way to truly make an entirely English watch. Atelier de Chronometrie doesn't use CNC machines. They tell me their watches have 3atm wr, but not to get them wet...

First, a quote from Roger W Smith ...

 
 By: kjkt3 : August 10th, 2019-07:44
“We’ve always used CNC machines,” explains Smith. “I’ve never shied away from showing that. If you want to make more than one watch a year you need to use CNC, there’s no question. Making pocket watches by hand is one thing but the reduced tolerances requ... 

Thanks, kjkt3 ...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-08:11
... I was mistaken with my original list, which now makes me wonder ... are there any independents that (a) create in-house movements and (b) don't use CNC machinery in the process? I assume the answer may lead to something that's completely in the strato... 

Thanks, Spangles, I didn't know that about RW Smith. Don't know how I feel about it yet ... need to mull it over.

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-07:55
But ... Atelier de Chronometrie ... wow. I don't know where I've been for the past 3-4 years, but I completely missed seeing them -- their watches are gorgeous. Those sector dials, and the movements! Granted, they are lightly based on Omega 283 and 266 mo... 

Caution may be necessary with Atelier de Chronometrie (AdC).

 
 By: kjkt3 : August 10th, 2019-12:18
AdC watches, of which there are few yet, are not "lightly based" on Omega movements, quite the reverse. Their decoration appears good, but is not exceptional. For the modifications AdC does and the cases & dials they commission, their prices are very high... 

My issue with anything too "exclusive" is that this being watches, they will need repairing somewhere down the line...

 
 By: Blansky : August 10th, 2019-08:26
and the romantic idea of the old craftsman toiling in his workshop with his two trusted employees could really come back to bite you once he's gone. Any type of in-house movement has this issue especially with independents who may not survive long, so aut... 

Very fair point, Blanksy

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-10:26
I tend to waver back and forth. Some years I'm more interested in the purity of the artisan's own creation and other years I'm interested in a 'sensible' (as my grandfather would put it) mix of the artisan's creation with reliability and serviceable funct... 

If Smith is truthful (and there’s no reason to think otherwise)

 
 By: DruidPadj : August 10th, 2019-08:35
then only very, very few watchmakers are creating movements totally by hand. These companies that claim they are not using industrial machines have to be using old blanks and hand-finishing. They then can deny the use of CNC machinery.

Agreed. I'm slowly and painfully coming that conclusion ...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-10:33
... 'kicking and screaming' along the way as they say. I believe you're right so, for example, when Dirk Dornblueth talks about not using CNC, it's likely coupled with the use of Unitas blanks, but when it comes to the in-house 2010 movement, it was likel... 

Have you thought about Haldimann?

 
 By: jlc.thomsen : August 10th, 2019-09:01
I think you have to go there to order a watch-I didn’t hav any response when I sent them an email.

I've liked what I've seen posted (the Flying Central), but I don't think I went back to look them up ...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-10:53
Thank you for the suggestion. I'm on their website now. Kind regards, Dan

Haldimann was the first one that came to my mind.

 
 By: blau : August 10th, 2019-14:38
But Beat Haldimann can't be the only one, right?

I agree -- I'm thinking there has got to be others, but I'm completely out of my depth of knowledge...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-16:23
... which isn't a bad thing. It's really good to learn something new about the industry! Kind regards, Dan

DuFour - not sure

 
 By: cazalea : August 10th, 2019-09:10
There was discussion on here many years ago about his Simplicity being based on an existing movement, heavily reworked. Never full resolved that I can recall. If you take an Omega or Peseux baseplate keeping the jewel spacing the same and using the gears ... 

A fair question for sure.

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-10:43
I'm thinking that it's an elusive target now based on this conversation. A bit like Icarus, watchmakers have 'wings' to create but it's best to not get too close to the sun. I'll need to come to peace that it's a riddle that could be solved ... but only b... 

My Smith quote was an article (link inside the post)

 
 By: kjkt3 : August 10th, 2019-11:50
THIS ARTICLE (click to view) www.qpmagazine.com Please put links inside the articles, not in the title. Thanks Cazalea

Sorry! :-) [nt]

 
 By: kjkt3 : August 10th, 2019-17:45

Haldimann

 
 By: donizetti : August 10th, 2019-12:41
Definitely uses no CNC. Best Andreas

Lang & Heyne certainly use CNC for parts.

 
 By: Tim Jackson : August 10th, 2019-14:07
As Roger Smith says, to produce wristwatches in series, one will typically use CNC in order to get the desired accuracy of parts. Where the difference lies, is in each Watchmaker’s leaves and execution of hand finishing. Tons of debate here and many opini... 

That seems very reasonable at this point...

 
 By: destrodan : August 10th, 2019-16:26
...as soon as I heard that Smith and Dufour use CNC, it took this conversation to a realm completely beyond was I was initially assuming. Kind regards, Dan

I'm liking Masahiro Kikuno

 
 By: destrodan : August 11th, 2019-00:15
From his website: 'Why by hand? He says, as most people including me, to create a watch oneself, we had to provide a lot of special tools and expensive automatic machines. And mostly, the funds to Possessing none of these means, he thought that it was imp... 

Yeah he is as "handmade" as they go

 
 By: nwk00 : August 11th, 2019-00:36
Take a closer look at the workmanship and see if that's what you are looking for. His work is about the journey and not the destination.

Thank you! I didn't know of Christian Klings before -- absolutely beautiful!

 
 By: destrodan : August 11th, 2019-00:04
From their website: "Parts, like plates, some bridges,wheels, case, crown, gasgets, glass, dial,etc. are designed and made by hand, using old fashion watchmaking tools, like lathe, pantograph, or other supports, which are modified to manufacture individua... 

Thank you, everyone, for your replies ...

 
 By: destrodan : August 11th, 2019-00:35
... this has been a great thread -- I've learned a lot. If anyone has more suggestions please do keep them coming. It's good to know about the more obscure but pure artisanal 'non-CNC' watchmakers who might not have the front-page marketing footprint of a... 

Oscillon comes to mind...

 
 By: Watchcph : October 31st, 2019-05:26
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