My concept of a collector / collection

Jun 29, 2014,23:39 PM
 


RULES FOR A COLLECTION
About a year ago, I came up with my own set of 10 rules for collections:

  1. May start by accident but must continue with deliberate intent and specific choice (pre-meditated)
  2. Need not contain one of everything, especially at the beginning (no PAM 999 models; they weren't on sale)
  3. By definition, does not include everything; some things are out (quartz ok, no Swatch)
  4. Limits are imposed by economics (price of MB&H), storage or other factors
  5. Collected items may have utility but need not be used (watches not worn are still ok)
  6. Items in the collection must have a tolerably long life span (collecting ice cubes wouldn't work)
  7. Changes may occur over time as tastes evolve or the collected items deteriorate (get eaten, rot or rust)
  8. If someone else uses / touches an item from the collection, the collector bristles (shouts, removes from reach)
  9. Collected items must invite the collector to arrange and rearrange them (beauty accentuated by revising combinations)
  10. A collection must please the collector and at least one other person (collections are best shared, admired and envied)
Since I also collect books (and more) I took a look at my book collection and discovered some principles that pretty much apply to my watches too:

  • I prefer buying used books over new
  • I prefer to find books by serendipity, not by recommendation by others
  • If I find an author or character I like, I want one of each of all their books, every one, and will get them over the course of a few years
  • I don't like frequenting libraries
  • I'll never belong to a book reading club  (watch website? Hmmm)
  • I've never read best-sellers (OK, I did just race through Steve Jobs' biography in one night)
  • I loathe book clubs and other enforced buying schemes
  • I've learned that publishers rarely produce consistent spine art and titles; they just can't be consistent. They can't. 
  • I read most of every book I buy (but not necessarily every page)
  • I tend to read 3-5 books at a time



Then I looked at my oriental carpet collection and realized that I prefer my collections consist of usable , not just observable , items. By observable I  mean enjoyed using all the senses , not just viewing or listening (winding, timing hamburgers on the grille, changing straps vs keeping in sealed wrapper).

What has led me to this? Our 25 woven, knotted and tied fabric items. I say "about 25" because what constitutes a "rug" depends on your definition. For more details, check this Wikipedia article on Persian carpets.

How is our collection usable ? They are on the floor, or walls. We walk on them, sit on them, store things within them, hang them on walls and / or look at them. We curl our toes in them, we stroke them, we brush cat hair off of them. Periodically we take them out on the driveway and vacuum them on both sides. Occasionally we send them off for cleaning.



As I contemplate the rugs and other weavings, I lament my inability to remember all their names and origins. I can tell you where I bought the rugs, and from whom, and even how much I paid for some of them. But I can no longer articulate the village or style in which they were made, or the meaning of the patterns. I do have the resources - a shelf full of books plus another group of articles and receipts. But there are so many other things to collect, and so little time!

I believe this happens to other collectors too - we simply can't keep track of a collection from 20 years ago with all the details that were so important then. Especially since we have used up brain cells on other, newer, more exciting pursuits (brands, technologies, fashions). But we can still enjoy and describe this collection aesthetically (if not as intellectually) and communally with others.

(If I may quote myself from a post 6 years ago on this site):

I used to work for Thomson Corp, which was owned by Ken Thomson (aka Lord Thomson of Fleet). He died a decade or so ago, and with his passing the world lost a great collector. The Art Gallery of Ontario in Toronto received over 2000 works of art from him, valued at $300 million, plus $75 million to take care of them.

I saw this in the Financial Time this week, a quote from London dealer Sam Fogg: 

“What I found so remarkable about Ken Thomson is that he put together this collection, which is of such importance, irrespective of art-historical considerations. He was not interested in rarity, where and when things were made. He made his judgment on the basis of handling a piece and judging whether it was beautiful or good. He was a proper, old-style collector of a kind that does not exist any more. The role of the professional adviser was not of importance. If someone has got a good eye – and he had a fabulous eye – it is the best kind of collection.”

I hope that kind of collector still does exist, and he/she are on this forum. I have read that there are about 7% of the population with a collecting gene. Is it really genetic? Who can say? But in my mind, a collector is one who must have certain things to ensure his or her mental tranquility (for a millisecond anyway).

As for collecting, if not watches, something else. Indeed, along with watches, other things as well. Like postage stamps.

In my case I have collections of watches, clocks, books, russian icons, Mr. Bibendum (the Michelin man), wine, oriental rugs, and so on.

Once in a while you reach equilibrium on a collection and can allow it to stand, content with what you have. But you had to have it. You had to build it. 

Yet perhaps the genetic factor may always kick in when you least suspect it - because there is that longing that arises when you walk past the watch shop, or when you are in a faraway country on business and buy a painting that has to be crated and shipped home, or you find yourself giving your neck a strong twist to catch a glimpse of someone's wristwatch ... and then you need to have one.

So yes, an enthusiast is one who loves, with or without possessing. 
A collector is one who loves to aquire and possess, then categorize and love. 

An interesting corollary is whether you feel pain at disposing of portions of the collection. I rarely do. When I have the fever for something else I seldom care about getting rid of things. Here today, gone tomorrow. Except of course for the "core" pieces.

On the contrary, my wife is not a collector. When she buys something she expects it to go to the grave with her. Woe to him who tries to give it away to the charity shop ... (I have learnt my lesson). Strangely, perhaps because her grandparents had a large used furniture business in Los Angeles with the motto "Why buy new when used will do". 

Ah well. As they say "Your mileage may vary"

Mike

Sorry to be so long-winded. 



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Comments: view entire thread 

What does it take to be a collector?

 
By: ianny : June 29th, 2014-12:07
Some of you might have read this thread: patek.watchprosite.com / The OP posted a bunch of his watch which was acquired over a relatively short period of a few months and was flamed by many. Is there a time frame to be watch collecting or watch ac... 
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a severe mental disorder ;-)

 
By: amerix : June 29th, 2014-15:17
or We are only here to guide you along your chosen path.
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Ken's thread

 
By: ianny : June 29th, 2014-16:38
I realised I had pasted the wrong thread. The correct thread is found here: Regards, Ian
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I have met him...

 
By: patrick_y : June 30th, 2014-03:24
I have met Mr. *******-san on multiple occasions in both Tokyo, Geneva, and Dresden. He is truly the utmost connoisseur and a true gentleman. Our upstanding moderator and humble gentleman, KIH, doesn't associate with otherwise. The member from Singapore (... 
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I know Ken and I know Bernard Cheong....

 
By: CL : July 2nd, 2014-12:13
A collector in my mind is someone who keeps fine tuning his collection to seek and reflect his belief. Both Ken and Bernard are true gentleman should you have the opportunity to meet them, though they are just different 'species'. Bernard happens to speak... 
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I wasn't referring to Bernard...

 
By: patrick_y : July 3rd, 2014-03:11
Hi John. I wasn't referring to Bernard Cheong when I mentioned the collector from Singapore. Different guy. Regardless, I admire and respect you for standing up for Bernard. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Bernard yet. As a 'newer' moderator I find... 
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Thanks Patrick for your clarification....

 
By: CL : July 3rd, 2014-07:56
Also, when I meant 'newer' moderator, I don't mean it as in inexperience or any lesser merit. It simply meant that this forum had been around for quite a while and we have witness the changes of members and moderators over the years. So some of these 'old... 
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The one thing I've learned...

 
By: patrick_y : July 3rd, 2014-10:15
No worries, I didn't assume that you meant it in any such way. Old and new, experienced and inexperienced, you can still never make assumptions. The inexperienced sometime come up with the best ideas, and the super experienced sometimes come up with the w... 
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A collector is a person who makes choices, sacrifices, collects by theme, with an idea

 
By: amanico : June 29th, 2014-21:45
Behind. Naturally it takes time, as finding the good piece, modern or vintage, takes a lot of time, and efforts. It is not a matter of how many pièces you have and how valuable they are, quantity and value never made great collections. It is just a matter... 
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Agreed. There's a difference between a collector and an acquirer.

 
By: patrick_y : June 30th, 2014-03:34
I concur with Nicolas. An acquirer acquires less discriminately. A collector acquires with purpose and appreciation that is with a strategy and/or an appreciation that is innately personal and based upon an education and an innate understanding. There are... 
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Well said!

 
By: cwyjeff : June 30th, 2014-11:32
" But our greatest achievement is to turn someone from a novice to a true collector with an innate understanding of the product and the industry, and a true appreciation for haute horlogerie "......truly well said Patrick.....I am still a novice and need ... 
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We welcome you Jeff!

 
By: patrick_y : June 30th, 2014-16:01
Honestly, a large percentage of our members are true connoisseurs. I've had the pleasure of meeting many of them. Some of them are soft spoken but with truly some of the best philosophies, some of them are very willing to share their opinions. Some people... 
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Thanks a million!!!!

 
By: cwyjeff : July 1st, 2014-04:03
Really appreciate what you have said and many thanks for the advice. I am contemplating to purchase the following patek watches which was offered to me recently....what are yours and other people's view on these pieces? 5074P 5079J 5104P
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You're welcome.

 
By: patrick_y : July 1st, 2014-10:01
First of all, go with the ones you like, the ones that DO LOOK GOOD on your wrist and the ones that will complement your collection the most. What do you like? Regarding the case design on the 5074 and 5079, these watches have a cool case design from the ... 
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Very good pointers

 
By: cwyjeff : July 1st, 2014-12:07
I would say both watches look good when I wear it as I have quite a larger than normal wrist and that is why I got myself associated with AP watches as they look good on my wrists. I like the cathedral gongs on the 5074 and I also like the 5079 for its si... 
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Dear Jeff: I really appreciate that you joined our group...

 
By: Ornatus-Mundi : July 1st, 2014-13:05
you did take all the initial criticism as a challenge and reacted like a pure gentleman. Moreover and equally important to me, you sparked some really fascinating discussions with both your collection and questions and your openness. May you find this pla... 
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Thanks!

 
By: cwyjeff : July 1st, 2014-22:46
I am privileged to live in this day and age that such a forum exist with such over whelming amounts of experience and knowledge that is available through the people here. Imagine the situation with collectors 2 or 3 decades back.....would have been extrem... 
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That would be....

 
By: Ares501 - Mr Green : July 2nd, 2014-16:04
one and only Dr. Thomas Mao Sincerely Damjan
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I really like that guy!

 
By: cwyjeff : July 2nd, 2014-19:24
After reading some articles on Dr Thomas Mao....his vision and passion for this website is what motivates people like me. Must try to meet him soon.....anybody care to point me in the right direction? A section from his interview done probably 3 years ago... 
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You said it all...

 
By: Ares501 - Mr Green : July 3rd, 2014-01:48
sorry Thomas said it :) Best Damjan
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Dear Patrick, after *this* post I think its clear for everybody...

 
By: Ornatus-Mundi : July 1st, 2014-13:07
why you were asked to help us as a moderator. Best (with great appreciation), Magnus
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Thank you for the kind words. [nt]

 
By: patrick_y : July 2nd, 2014-01:21
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nicely stated my friend...

 
By: ocwatching : July 1st, 2014-05:52
I don't think I will be either acquirer or collector due to limited funds, however, I do have a collection that works for me... and I share that with the many whom I consider friends here...
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You and me both my friend...

 
By: patrick_y : July 1st, 2014-10:06
I have champagne tastes, but beer budgets. Actually that analogy is getting further and further from the truth. As the beers that I consume have actually been quite expensive. But I hear you and I feel you on that. But what are we? If we're not collectors... 
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At least the other person got label as accumulator. I'm but a hoarder ...

 
By: TdotBean : June 30th, 2014-06:54
... who happen to like things that tick
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LOL........good to be a hoarder

 
By: Iceman : June 30th, 2014-06:58
Wait.......is a Hoarder a Collector????? Best Iceman
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LOL! [nt]

 
By: amanico : June 30th, 2014-23:09
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Hoarder and good man...

 
By: Ares501 - Mr Green : July 2nd, 2014-15:35
which makes you collector ;) :) Best my dear friend D
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Thanks my friend. :D [nt]

 
By: TdotBean : July 2nd, 2014-19:32
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+1 (nt)

 
By: cmclee : June 30th, 2014-07:03
nt
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My concept of a collector / collection

 
By: cazalea : June 29th, 2014-23:39
RULES FOR A COLLECTION About a year ago, I came up with my own set of 10 rules for collections: May start by accident but must continue with deliberate intent and specific choice (pre-meditated) Need not contain one of everything, especially at the beginn...  
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With regards to the rules...

 
By: TOPLIMIT : June 30th, 2014-07:37
I think you can include Swatch now, with the Sistem51. I am pretty sure many respected collectors here are awed by the technological advances this piece has, and I am pretty sure it wouldn't hurt to collect a couple of these. Just my two cents :)
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Yes, I have a dozen Swatches; that was just an example

 
By: cazalea : June 30th, 2014-08:53
My actual rules are pretty loose. The ones I listed were just hypothetical. Thanks for reading them! Cheers, Cazalea
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Maturity (nt)

 
By: Echi : June 30th, 2014-00:43
..
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A long-term collector vs a short-term collector?

 
By: lhk1 : June 30th, 2014-03:33
I don't see it in a complicated way. A watch collector is someone who has real passion to acquire watches that he/she likes for any reason except money. It matters not whether he/she keeps it for 1 week or 1 century (if he/she lives that long). It does no... 
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Well, thanks for mentioning my post...

 
By: KIH : June 30th, 2014-09:24
.. my short answer is "love". Mr. U has collected many watches in a relatively short period of time. But he studies A LOT about the brands and model, history, story behind them.....etc. AND, more importantly, he is so open to fellow collectors so that he ... 
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I completely agree w Ken

 
By: Iceman : June 30th, 2014-17:34
All you need is "Love" for the watch. And i equally love meeting and making new friends thru this hobby.. There is NO formula on being a COLLECTOR. To each his own. No one should put upon others their opinion on how to be a collector. Each of us collects ... 
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Love...

 
By: patrick_y : July 2nd, 2014-01:23
A great answer. Simple. Yet so complex.
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Overthinking

 
By: SALMANPK : June 30th, 2014-15:36
We're overthinking and over analyzing this, everyone has their own motivations and reasons as to why they love watches, there is no right or wrong and frankly I don't know why we have to be so judgmental of others and what right we have to judge others. I... 
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Whilst I think it is important to define a collector

 
By: watch-guy.com : June 30th, 2014-20:24
it is most probably more relevant to define a Purist. This may be the reason why there have been a number of responses to 2 recent posts on this forum 1. The first on the HOME related to financial and economic statements that were not in the spirit of the... 
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Is there a need

 
By: S F : July 1st, 2014-07:55
to define a collector and is there a universal definition? A number of participants have shared good viewpoints on what it takes to be a "collector" : choices, sacrifices, love, maturity and the list can go on and on. In the end, it is what makes the pers... 
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+1 well said nt

 
By: SALMANPK : July 1st, 2014-08:21
nt
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a person that collects

 
By: Arie - Mr Orange : July 1st, 2014-08:34
that's the definition folks. Nothing more, nothing less.
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You know it's funny...

 
By: Mostel : July 1st, 2014-23:01
I looked at it so many ways. I used to view a collector as an erudite, tasteful individual with a philosophical bent regarding his objects. Then I met many collectors and was in general, surprised how, almost to a person, money defined everything-- and pr... 
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I love your three last paragraphs, while I have to agree on the rest, sadly.

 
By: amanico : July 1st, 2014-23:12
Collectors are like the rest of human beens, some are interesting, others are boring... Best, Nicolas
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Not all collector are human

 
By: TdotBean : July 2nd, 2014-19:31
;) ...  
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This one is a special one. ;) [nt]

 
By: amanico : July 2nd, 2014-21:58
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I agree on this particular point you are making

 
By: drphileasfogg : July 3rd, 2014-05:13
Dear Mostel, I agree on this particular point you are making:” Then I met many collectors and was in general, surprised how, almost to a person, money defined everything-- and price was absolutely the first consideration. Men buying watches for 200k would... 
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Astute observation

 
By: ianny : July 5th, 2014-12:36
I think you're quite spot on. Thank you sharing your thoughts. Regards, Ian
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What about Susan Sontag's definition?

 
By: nilomis : July 3rd, 2014-06:24
Susan Sontag "The Volcano Lover" 1992 The Collector is a dissembler, someone whose joys are never unalloyed with anxiety. Because there is always more. Or something better. You must have it because it is one step toward an ideal completing of your collect... 
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Thank you for the diverse comments

 
By: ianny : July 5th, 2014-10:02
This is not a post to defend the OP of the "offending thread". To clarify, I do not know Jeff from Adam. Nor was I aware that he's also based in Singapore until Patrick pointed it out. I felt compelled to ask the question because I was dismayed by what lo... 
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Answering your question ...

 
By: nilomis : July 5th, 2014-13:59
" And I wonder if the venerable gentleman had posted photos of his watches here within a couple of months of his buying spree, would he have met with the same responses? ". No, only if he bragged about prices, investment wisdom or something unrelated to t... 
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Are we talking about the same person?

 
By: ianny : July 5th, 2014-14:03
I don't think Jeff's post was anything close to Bernard's. Regards, Ian
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Yes and no ...

 
By: nilomis : July 5th, 2014-14:16
Two different cases but the other carries some weird actions. Case closed on my side. Nilo
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For the record

 
By: ianny : July 5th, 2014-14:26
It's Jeff's post that motivated me to ask the question. As you've mentioned, they are completely different cases. Regards, Ian
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Never gloat about your possessions

 
By: amerix : July 5th, 2014-12:28
or how you came to acquire them. amerix
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