Ornatus-Mundi
[Zenith]
7136
But I read the statement such that they indeed want to focus on innovating...
at the level of the El Primero (with all its iterations and derivatives, from Minute Repeater to a basic three-handed watch) and forego the level of Elite at an in-house status.
While the Elite is an outstanding movement, its not exactly a star in the appreciation of collectors and other buyers. So, they might have come to the conclusion that (i) the added value of the movement to Zenith as a brand is too low to justify resources (production, service, marketing,...) and (ii) Zenith as a whole would profit more from expanding at where it is strong and keeping a lower profile on where they just can accrue revenues (the Sellita level).
That is a lower price level that Zenith is aiming for, and I am sure that the basic Zenith quality is there. Thus, I think many (if not all) of your cirtiera in the first two sentences are fulfilled.
As for the 'Biverisation' - you have a string point, and seeing the RS edition I think your point is even stronger...
Best,
Magnus
Controversy on outsourced movements: Zenith explains its move in a Financial Times article
Dear All: thanks to my fellow moderator Andrew Daley I can now provide you with an article recently published in the renowned UK newspaper Financial Times . Therein Zenith's global marketing director Juliette North very openly explains the reasoning behin...
The last sentence is very telling...
Very interesting read; thank you for sharing! I think the last line is particularly interesting; the suggestion that we may begin to see more brands stepping 'down' to sourced movements, in order to evolve to face the new economic realities of the industr...
The 'in-house' trend really is late 20s/early 21st century marketing...
and like you I can understand why brands like to use it to sell their watches and distinguish themselves - its so easy to 'understand'... However, a watch is much more than a movement, and the other qualities (and those of the brand) are much more difficu...
This is very sad...
As I see it, there are at present only two high end industrial watch companies (Swatch Group and Rolex). The rest are more or less boutique marketing houses, especially LMVH. Why Zenith can't sell more than 30'000 watches a year is a mystery. Do they get ...
Don, I understand where you are coming from but...
I think you put a but much emphasis on the movement (as I said fully understandable as an accomplished watchmaker ,-)). Just because Zenith resorts to outsourced movements does not meant that the watches are on the same level as a Tissot (which besides do...
I understand, but I don't understand...
I entirely understand why, if they want to expand the brand, they need to have a lower entry-price and to achieve that, they must forgo the in-house movements. What I am less clear on is the need to expand the brand. They're not a small company, or even p...
Where else are RD movements used?
I would risk the statement that RD is not exactly a success story either. So, if according to Ms North 'purists' (read: collectors) are not the main target audience I guess it would be difficult to market the advantages of a Zenith movement in a Dior, TAG...
Cartier
I don't remember if any particular RD movements are used completely unchanged, but they are the basis for several of the recent complications, i.e. the Ballon Bleu Flying Tourbillon A
The Circle of Time
Dear forumners, What's the problem? This is the natural cycle of time in the watch industry. By the fact that some people are complaining shows how "young" today's consumer or collector of mechanical watches are. Even our more senior members remember buyi...
very well put!
Sir, your response reflects a very deep understanding of human psychology and the retail market..I am a Pakistani and have lived in six different countries and currently living in South Korea. your point about new lifestyles and artificial gods' creation ...
The watch industry and its customers - what came first, and what follows?
Dear Melvyn thanks for your very refreshing perspective. Yes, I agree with you on the cycles. Demand comes and goes, tastes and preferences change, and the industry has to cope with it. I see an industry confronted with immensely expensive overheads due t...
Sad indeed
Zenith has decided to turn its back on it's loyalists. It would be fine if these moves would be accompanied by moves to make the best possible watch and to innovate. I have no issue with outsourcing so long as this is reflected in the price and they do no...
But I read the statement such that they indeed want to focus on innovating...
at the level of the El Primero (with all its iterations and derivatives, from Minute Repeater to a basic three-handed watch) and forego the level of Elite at an in-house status. While the Elite is an outstanding movement, its not exactly a star in the app...
Shaky start
I can't say that Zenith's decision to start using outsourced movements is the wrong direction for the brand as it is still too early to tell. But I must say that the "Pilot Type 20 Extra Special" a bad start. Here's a few classic examples why. 1. Customer...
I fully agree with you, and the only explanation I have...
is that the Sellita-thingy is an afterthought where they had to use the just revived Pilot collection exactly because this one is actually attracting new (and younger) customers. Best, Magnus
At the end of the day, it is about running a business
While I'm not thrilled about the news, I don't really have an issue with this. IMO, they're taking the same path many other watch manufacturers/companies are on in broadening the appeal to the market, from the purists to the man on the street who's lookin...
Right on !
+1 "What I will have an issue with is not so much the movements, but the marketing that goes about endorsing just about every private club and sports star out there and passing those costs down to the consumer, which will then negate any potential price e...
Thanks for your opinion, indeed, it could be beneficial even for us purists...
if - and this is a big IF - they play it well. I am inclined to give the incoming CEO a carte blanche on this. Magnus
Zenith has done it, others have/will do it, and its a reasonable decision!
Dear all: I took the liberty of taking a few days to ponder about this decision. Initially, I was taken aback by it, but the more I think about it and the more I read the contributions here (THANKS SO MUCH!) the more I am confident that (partially) resort...
Extremely well put
Very well said Magnus. Like I mentioned, I have no issue with the move to partially outsource. I was not impressed with the way they quietly introduced it in a watch labelled Extra Special. And I have yet to see how the movement is finished. I am also a l...
But this is Zenith. I guess I can be a romantic when it comes...
to these things. Also the reason why I don't make a ton of money. But then again, I never really needed to ;) Thanks for sharing this article.
I'm Not Convinced
All this proves is that LVMH doesn't understand the brand. This move will alienate the current clientele without drawing a new set of loyalists. Already, it's difficult to see how a high-volume Zenith is anything but duplicative of TAG Heuer, a brand that...
You bring up a very valid point comparing to the other watch conglomerates...
Swatch certainly did a wise thing in that the split their customers into various levels served by different brands , not trying a one-brand-fits-it-all approach. I am not saying that Zenith is trying to do that, its to early and in addition - next week we...
Obviously
they read PPro's Zenith forum :) I think that apart from the fact that all manufacturers use different online resources to feel the pulse of customers our CEO MTF already said it in this thread "Zenith did NOT announce they were abandoning in-house moveme...
a 'but' that causes a second 'but'...
'but 1': In the FT article it was stated that previous CEO Mr Dufour announced the demise of the Elite movement. Which immediately raises... 'but 2': the announcement of the new ladies' timepieces with the Elite movement came on 2 July - the 2nd day in o...
Without any false pretention
that I'm God given or knowledgeable or of any merit but I feel and see that life is full of ifs and buts (pun not intended) so world of horology is not exception Life is one big compromise ...some learn it sooner some later some too late...some hard way o...
Outsourced movements
If Rolex could use El Primero movements, and Patek Philippe could use Lemania movements, it is understandable that Zenith uses Sellita movements.
My 2 cents
The reality is that Zenith is only known to the cognoscenti. Ask your non WIS friends, family, and colleagues to name an example of a "good" watch and inevitably Rolex will be mentioned. If you had a couple of grand to blow on your first good watch the ch...
But have you read...
that the Sellita movement are - rumor has it - already history? More here: Cheers, Magnus