anon438
429
Since I'm on a trip I won't further it
Still my answer for the aficionado on the question for those ref is:
(1) Cloisonné, because 'one off' or 'super rare' artistic enamel - a statement watch
(2) CR, because of the horological superiority of the Chronometre Royal - or even the 30 mm Chronometre as a principle
(3) Guilloché, because still more atractive than the usual standard
For the Guilloché it is therefore a competition betweenn the craftmanship wich made up the Guilloché dials and the style of the ref cases of those watches.
The Guilloché was quite popular in this time not compareable to the rarity of the Cloisonné.
some advice for ref.4724
Hello everyone. Recently bought an antique VC, It has a huge case, 37mm. Large straight and curved legs. The most attractive is the dial： "guilloche" silver, vertical line at the center, two circular extermal lines, with applied gold lozenge indexes and ...
I love the dial!
You really have an exciting piece. Congratulations! You already know a lot about your piece. All is know is: - it has been produced in 1951. - these lugs are almost unique, very nice. - the piece is very rare. Vacheron has made many of these simple 3-hand...
Thank you for your reply
By searching auction records and my own judgment, was produced in the early 1950s. You said it was produced in 1951, and i don't know if it was terminated in 1953. Can you find the historical production quantity of this ref.？
RE: Vacheron & Constantin ref 4724
This style is best known by the aficionados as the Chronomètre Royal (CR refs 4838, 4907), it have been not much recognised yet that there have been also variants with 'standrad' V&C 453 & 454 manual movement. Some of them outperform the CR samples in rar...
Hand Guilloché silvered dial with 18K gold indexes and pearl minute track
The hand Guilloché pattern of the silvered dial with the applied 18K gold indexes is ultra fine and fully developed and points in a later period of those dials, in the early period of 1950's Guilloché dials the dial style was more simple. The pearl minute...
Thank you for sharing. I get a lot from every discussion.
I think the cloisonn é dial you described should be , , I didn't find the ref. of ref 472x subsecond dial. Can you share the specific ref.?
The Cloisonne variant.
In my opinion it was a ref 4724 not a ref 4838, no question. What's your indication for 4838? All other 4838 are CR, with a different movement and case modification. But the better question for the aficionado would be: CR vs. Guilloché? As I stated initia...
That's no answer.
I'm actually able to read. It's a statement by an Antiquorum expert of 1995, not based on an extract of archive or simmilar an in my opinion wrong. But the better answer for the aficionado on the question CR vs. Guilloché is (1) Cloisonné, because 'one of...
CR case with cloisonné dial is unique
Can you provide more information about this one? subsecond dial in CR case,i cannot find any information about it. whether picture or ref. ...
CR with cal 454 is also unique or lets better say not in existance
The CR always comes along with cal 1007/1008 BS. This is a nice sample for the rare CR ref 4907 at The ref mix-up base model and CR versions should be clarified.
Have a good weekend
I know that many Chinese VC enthusiasts focus more on enough attention on guilloch é dial large-size antique VC. In my opinion, most of the antique VC with guilloch é dial are partially oxidized, and the perfect one are more difficult to find than the or...
I try to get an objective look at them
What to say about the Guilloché. The normal surface would be oxided because the dial surface is silverd and silver oxides after > 50 years in contact to oxygen that's the natural process. If the watch was used there would have been also some intrusion of ...
hi timeset
My judgment is based on the following information: 1、what is the difference between those & ,sub seconds,with Cal. 1007/BS . ,center seconds,with Cal. 1008/BS. the case diam of two ref. are all 35mm. 2、the , with Cal. 454(CR with &),37mm(CR should be 35m...
hi student
Because of the CR it could be sayed probably both center second and sub-second have the same ref number and it should be the ref 4907. You can read the explenation on the 4838 vs. 4907 topic at Antiquorum link " ...The present lot is an excellent Ref. 490...
Re: Pay attention to details...
It's indeed a good recomendation, cause the details could make up the difference.
The official VC discription of the Chronomètre Royal ref 4838 & ref 4907
V&C Chronomètre Royal ref 4838 see link V&C Chronomètre Royal ref 4907 see link
the guilloché dials in 35 mm case called 4724
If you can provide pictures of this watch,e specially inside caseback and caseback,the discussion may come to a final conclusion.
Since I'm on a trip I won't further it
Still my answer for the aficionado on the question for those ref is: (1) Cloisonné, because 'one off' or 'super rare' artistic enamel - a statement watch (2) CR, because of the horological superiority of the Chronometre Royal - or even the 30 mm Chronomet...
have a good trip
From Sotheby's： • Ref. 4830 MVT 495802 CASE 335589, Antiquorum Geneva, lot 724, Oct. 21, 1995, Each of the dials in this series of watches appears to have been produced by Beyeler, a competitor of Stern Freres and Singer dial makers. Beyeler produced dial...
In my opinion still a bunch of questions left
But actually only very few regarding your watch.
ok
Maybe it's a little unpleasant for others because i keep on asking questions like this.
No, I don't think so
Who is interested will follow the thread others would skip it. The answers are not easy to give. Many information has to be checked, compared and so on, it's not only looking into records.
Back to the discussion of Ref. 4724
I found 6 pieces of , all of them in yellow gold case, the design of the dial is exactly the same, using the same hands. I prefer to think deeply in daily life. For example, before I visit ancient Chinese grottoes, I need to study more than 10 profession...
And what's your conclusion about them?
They look similar but are full of differences. Did you spot the differences already? Aply your knowledge as if the masters would do.
I'm a beginner, not an expert
I didn't find the difference between the six watches. If you find it, please share the informations in here,thank you. If there is no difference among the six watches, it confirms my original judgment that has a very low output. The first five watches we...
Start with one specific faeture and compare
Maybe start the minute pearls and try to discribe the differences you can spot. They are not all the same if you look at those samples.
Colour of Minute Pearls
OK, well spotted. Gold, silver and dark or almost black - right? I guess only one colour was original when the dial was delivered to V&C.
Form of Minute Pearls
What about the pearls - are they all the same diameter perfectly round or not?
I think there are some inconsistencies in our concerns.
I found the pictures of six watches for comparison and came to the conclusion that the design of dial did not change. Thank you for your analysis and description of the dial. Whether the dial is all original is not the subject of discussion.
Let's go back to the original topic and continue our discussion.
I remember the photo you provided, with sub second. Maybe it used the same case as , like ref 4838 and But in 35mm case, I really don't have any informations. the photos which I provided, some dials I also think are refinished. The transaction price is...
I find some pictures
Swiss made stainless steel case, American made gold-plated case. Although there are some differences in the design, the overall style is consistent. This kind of case design was very popular in 1950's. Other brands used it,such as omega，IWC, JLC, etc. ...