Cool
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I agree its an economic thing...
...for sure.....by taking a long look at he collectors market on this forum you will be able to see how people's finances are effecting the sales.
This is true not only for 5970 priced watches but all Pateks and the like.
Why would anyone think otherwise? When funds are low and money is needed, a luxury item like a high end watch is the first to go. Especially if you can turn a profit on something like a 5970P. My 2 cents as well which in this economy is worth one cent 
Sorry, its confusing for me ..
but with so many 5970P on the secondary market how could the estimated ( 200-250 ) production numbers be correct ?
guess
200-250 could be correct for the 5070P Talking about the 5970, I would't be surprised if it was more ! 2 reasons 1/ they might have used all the last lemania's they had for the 5970P 2/ I know more than one dealer who never got a 5070P but all of those go...
well I just answered the opposite ;-)
fyi, 5070 was only 1 year available. Delivery took place between august 2008 and summer 2009
that seems to be VERY much
that would be 3% off the total year production. Patek makes more or less 28.000 watches per year (+ 10.000-12.000 quartz watches)
You say "so many on second hand market"?? Are there really????
That many????? I would suggest 5070p is in fewer numbers but not by a massive amount....5970p Born in April 2009 RIP Nov 2009..... My AD had the letter from PP... So although a very short run of availability numbers???? How ever many were made it is numbe...
I see...
nine 5070P and twelve 5970P on one website, today. I also had a couple of grey market dealers offer me the 5970P repeatedly but asking them to find me a 5070P was a little more difficult. This has been my experience since February 2010. So, from my observ...
I know people have taken delivert of their 5970`s only to find themselves in money trouble
so have to sell them with regret......This may also explain the few around today but dont think that this is a measure of how many were made more a measure of how many people can afford a £94k watch to either put on their wrist or put into a safe...... Ju...
I agree its an economic thing...
...for sure.....by taking a long look at he collectors market on this forum you will be able to see how people's finances are effecting the sales. This is true not only for 5970 priced watches but all Pateks and the like. Why would anyone think otherwise?...
I've never...
Hi, I've never believed the estimation numbers given for all the Lemania chronographs. They are just extrapolations from one single figure given long ago in the press release of the 5070J. No more. I can't imagine Patek Philippe creating a best seller to ...
Why such a hype ???
Completely correct! Why should Patek keep numbers small of such a desired watch, if it is not a limited model and not as "difficult" to produce as some low production number watches like the 5013 or other grande complications ? I also fully agree to the q...
because !
Ofcourse this is all personal taste but somehow a lot of people seem to share the same taste when speaking about the 5070. I can understand some people don't like it as much as I do. but like said, A LOT OF people love the 5070. Some people like AP offsho...
Thanks for the link ...
... to the post regarding 5070. I do not have any issue with the design, so I do not think it is an ugly watch. The movement and the size, but most of all the size is something that I can not associate with a Patek. Back to the movement: maybe it will add...
Have you...
tried one on your wrist? It looks much better on the wrist that in photos... As for the movement, it is refinished by PP... Cheers
I am more of a purist ...
If it has to be a Patek, than a truely elegant and classic watch, as for me this is the spirit PP. And a size of 42 mm is simply too big. I believe Patek buckled a bit under the demand for larger watches and shot a bit over the target. Although I am more ...
Not fair to say regarding 5070
that Patek buckled under the pressure of the big watch craze. If I remember correctly the 5070 first began production 10 years ago with 5070J, before people were really clamoring for 42 mm watches. This design arrived on its own merit and in hommage to so...
Why such a hype?
I am in complete agreement with you. It is because it is a Patek thus the hype!. Both Omegas (Speedmasters) and Pateks use these Lemenia movements and so did some others. (if I am not mistaken Roger Dubuis as well). Whilst Omegas speedmaster range includi...
However.....
one of the charms of the 5070 is the uncharacteristic large size of it's case.... I think that it is probably the nicest dress chronos and will became (already is) a classic... Cheers
I agree with you about the number that appear
to be available and we could speculate until the cows come home regarding the total number produced, but unless PP publishes production quantities, we can only speculate. I see the listings, but I don't know for sure if they exist. Sometimes, I think folk...
Too many guesses...
Nobody knows the real numbers. IMO, this is not the most important nor the most interesting thing, actually. But I may be wrong... Best, Nicolas
Aussie, i think its confusing to a lot of people
One of the reasons that PP attained the status that it did (and also why it could charge the prices that it did) was that it produced a very small quantity of watches of extraordinary quality. That was maybe 30 or more years ago. It continued with this pr...
Some quite.....
Valid points.... However, Lange, JLC & VC proDuce larger amount of watches than PP.... I also see more of those available at ADs than PPs.... Cheers
How can you say that Lange produces more watches than PP?
Do you know the number of Lange watches made per year? If you knew, you would not write such a statement... Best, Nicolas
Actually....
that was not exactly what i said.... (sometimes conversation over te net can lead to misunderstandings) what i meant was that JLC, VC & Lange produce more than PP... (in reply to baron's remark) But what are the estimations for mechanical watches produced...
All together yes, and even JLC alone makes more watches than PP.
As for Lange, as you should know, the estimation of watches made per year is around 5 000. So, if PP makes less watches than 5000 per year, that would be a scoop. But of course, you already know that... Best, Nicolas
The ranking in terms of numbers should be
Hi, The ranking in terms of numbers of watches produced should be, with or without quartz watches: 1) JLC 2) PP 3) VC 4) Lange I'm at least sure for mechanical watches. The only doubt I have is about PP ranking first if you include quartz watches in 2009 ...
If you can believe the source ....
Thierry Stern I recall stated the latest figures were 42,000 but production was held-back by 10% in 2009, making production approx. 36,000 pieces. But I think enough has been said -- I purchased a 5970P not because I heard production would be for only one...
" What difference does it make? "... Exactly!
There are so many posts about numbers ( presumed rarity ) and value that each time I see something like that, I suspect the author's intention to not consider the watch for what it is ( beautiful, captivating, enchanting, innovative, etc .. ), but for wha...
Then.......
you bought your watch for the right reasons.... you love it.... As for the availability.... True there might be many in London but there are ADs elsewhere where they have none.... Enjoy yours... Cheers
No reason for confusion ...
Patek is a company that wants to make profit, so why all watches in small numbers? London was and is the capital of capital, so why not twelve 5970 in a year? If there is a need for more exclusivity: limited watches or very, very small manufactures, like ...
just to be clear
... my comment about production numbers has been taken out of context. When a watch is put into a limited edition of a specific number, then it is limited to that number. In that sense one knows exactly how many are produced. My comment was to compare tha...
I would...
fully agree with your third paragraph.... However there are limited editions that are not really limited editions... They change some little thing and then re-introduce them..... So, with a watch you can never be certain... But even with art, artists make...
Would I be way off if I stated mostly likely there were .........
500 - ref. 5970P produced ? Not that the figure really means anything expect that since the 200-250 number has been floating around I just think that is too low of a guess-imate. I would think its 5970G - 750, 5970R - 750, 5970J - 500, 5970P - 500. total ...