dr.kol
11333
About the weight of a platinum watch:
Moderator Mark is thinking about 5960 and the weight of the watch.
Let's have a closer look.
Here is 5960A with WG clasp and a bespoke strap.
And the same in platinum; clasp made of platinum and same length of strap.
Platinum is heavier like we all know. But what about platinum vs. gold?
Yellow gold
White gold
And rose gold
Let's have a closer look at the densities of different metals:
- Platinum 21.4 (21.4 g per cubic cm)
- Gold 19.3
- Stainless steel 7.9
However, the platinum used for watches is 95% platinum while gold is just 75% gold. The three different golds have a bit different density because of those 25% of different metals. White gold with palladium is a bit heavier than either yellow or rose gold.
The density of 950 platinum is about 20.34 while 750 gold is in average 15.3. This means that the density of platinum used in watches is about 36% higher than the one of gold. At the same time the density of gold is some 94% higher than the one of steel.
Now comes the interesting part.
Yesterday platinum was 30.91 EUR / g while gold was 38.24 EUR / g. If we forget the value of other metals in the mixture, 950 platinum was € 29.36 per gram and 750 gold € 28.68 per gram. The case of 5960 requires about 60 grams of platinum and 38.4 grams of gold. In other words the raw materials cost of a platinum watch are some € 660 higher than the same of a gold watch...
To Mark: A 5960G would be just some 20-25 grams lighter than the platinum brother. The difference is not really remarkable.
Best, Kari
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About the weight of a platinum watch:
Moderator Mark is thinking about 5960 and the weight of the watch. Let's have a closer look. Here is 5960A with WG clasp and a bespoke strap. And the same in platinum; clasp made of platinum and same length of strap. Platinum is heavier like we all know. ...
very interesting Kari..always wondered about weight differences
and there is very few resources online about it. Well done! Christian
Thanks.
And as you can see, pure platinum has a density of 21.4 while pure gold has a density of 19.3. In reality gold has a density just 10% lower than platinum. Best, Kari
Dear Christian
In my opinion, a periodic table of elements is very helpful for that kind of topic. You can easily find one on google. Best wishes Alkiro
Nicely put Kari
Looking at your calculus one wonders where all this zeros in total price of Pt watch comes from yes I know the movement, dial, hands, craftmanship...finish...working with platinum... heft of brand name ...historical value etc...but still....one wonders Ch...
You wonder correctly.
Just think about the price difference between 5960/1A and 5960P. No wonder the most expensive manufacturers don't like to make steel watches. Best, Kari
Owning a steel and platinum 5960 I can attest that different in feel is minimal despite weight differences.
Clearly P has some more heft, but most important is how the case fits the shape and size of ones wrist! Amazing summary Kari! Bothers me often that weight is a spec usually left out for watches as it is quite relevant to people like me!!!
I have been jumping today from 5960A to 5960P.
The higher weight of P does not bother me a bit. We guys easily lift a pint of beer weighting some 12 times more than the weight difference between the steel and platinum model of 5960. So beer drinkers should not complain! Best, Kari
I drink champagne from big glasses
made of heavy crystal. So the champagne glass when full weights 4.67 times the difference of 5960P & 5960A. Best, Kari
:-) I knew something like this was coming
Champagne should be drunk with big sips out of big glasses (a famous Dutch restaurant owner used to say that).
Thank you for sharing your experience
It is difficult to try them enough to make a reliable opinion. Indeed, the caseback's shape and lugs etc... are very important when dealing with comfort. Best, Mark
Well if you are ever in Stockholm you can try mine as much as you want ;)
It is a great reference and believe a future classic for many reasons
Great post Kari
That was very interesting reading, I'll bookmark! As someone paying very much attention to the comfort of a watch (thin wrist), the weight is a very important element to consider (aside the caseback's shape). Hence, your figures are very useful, especiall...
You can also count it as follows:
We speak about the same watch in 3 different metals. If you buy a new steel version, you pay about € 15k less than a pre-loved platinum version. That means that you pay additional € 320 per added gram. But if you want to save about 20 grams and choose the...
Quite interesting.
But I am a bit confused. Are you saying "pure" platinum is cheaper than "pure gold"? And the higher cost of a platinum case is because of the added metals (in addition to workmanship-I know)?
For a long time gold has been about 20% more expensive than platinum.
I spoke with a watchmaker and he admitted that it is a bit more difficult to work with platinum than gold. But for sure the price difference between a platinum and gold watch is totally artificial. Best, Kari
Very interesting!
Thank you for taking the time to take these measurements and for sharing this data. Cheers, Brandon
Thank you, Kari.
Very nicely done analysis and entertaining as ever. Makes you wander.
Great post
The P is at least 50% heavier (obviously different sizes/style but it's interesting)
Naturally it is a big joke.
The case material represent below 2k of the total costs. Best Kari
But the whole "high-end" watch business is somehow artificial.
The GM of a Top Brand (not Patek) said me a while ago: "you need to understand that we are in High Profits Business based on passion of our clients". That was the explanation to high prices. No arguments there but I trust that on the long run market effie...
Patek
Very interesting Kari Amazing with such high profits that these brands make and some of them are going trough financial difficulties.
Some are having too high production capacity
and thanks to rapid expansion, they are highly leveraged. Also some brands are forced to sell with remarkable discounts. Best Kari
Alkiro, if I may, I think that it is not the way I would interpret it
This is a luxury field, thus the value is not based on the intrinsic value (material, time needed to craft etc...) but there is a significant part of the price linked to the brand's image, what is the philospohy, the spirit that the wearer may like to sho...
I fully understand your arguments Mark but a lot of excesses were made these last years and several brands took customers for suckers (full in-house mouvements, Swiss made...)
I just hope the today watchmaking crisis will help to sort the wheat from the chaff but I\'m far to be convinced in a such possibility. Most of the brands are part of huge listed companies and thus the main goal is to make and maximise profits (just a "hu...
To be clear, I agree.
It is just how it works because clients agree to accept it. That's what they do when they buy. Until one year ago, that's what they did more and more, leading to the prices we have today. Brands could go that high in terms of marketing and prices because ...
Mark, you are nearly 100% correct.
Why I say nearly is that the most intelligent brands should have thought the future reaction of clients who are getting more and more critical. Best, Kari
Yes I agree Kari
Even if this was difficult to anticipate. Not a "if" issue as it was going to happen one day but the "when". They could have said in 2010 already that prices are high but you see that the market was still willing to pay the price asked several years after...
I just do not believe that the issue is a difficult "cycle".
The whole business environment is changing and it will be very difficult to attract the Next Generation to this madness. Best, Kari
I agree as they may not be able to come back to the current price and output volumes any time soon
Well, who knows what the demand will be in the future. For instance India is at the level China was around 10 years ago. However, I totally agree on the fact that it will be hard to bring new younger generations with such prices if they start from zero. T...
The "Luxury Explanation" might work for a while.
However, it will not be sustainable because the market efficiency will push the profits towards normal profitability. Best, Kari
Please have a look Kari at my answer to Alkiro just above
I think that things will correct naturally but since the market accepted it, then it shouldn't complain IMHO. Best, Mark
The market is not fully developed and mature.
A lot needs to change before we are back to normal. In "normal" industries the IRR is below 10% p.a. watch business is still different. In the future we will see more companies failing and some are doing well. But we need to understand one fact: In the en...
Yes, there will be change
I think that the main watchmaking brands have learned to evolve during difficult times. The ones who don't will have problems... I thought the same as you do about the know how. You can make very easily basic crafting with machines and certainly copy exis...
Marketing
Certain watch companies seem to be doing things correctly to protect there brand. I am in London at the moment and visited a few stores find a single Patek Nautilus/Pilot 5524 or a Richard Mille RM11-03 or RM35-01 in fact those ref are commanding premium...
True.
But can you find a BMW M4 readily from the shop? You probably can't but it's available with a relatively sensible price when you order it. As an example PP 5711 is not a specially technical product but it is kept out of reach with artificial (and clever) ...
Nautilus
If I may add an opinion, I don't think that the 5711 and 5712 are maintained limited production to create value or sell it at a higher price. First, because the price of both watches have increased less than the other models in recent years (they could ha...
Human Nature
It\'s comes down to simple human nature . The more scarce something is the more you want it . The hunt becomes the challenge and we loose focus on why we actually want these items. I have three Nautilus and the fourth one the way and it makes me feel good...
Not really...
Remember that only 75% of the case is gold with density of 19.3. In good white gold most of the remaining 25% is palladium, having a density of 12.02. In red and yellow gold some other metals are used like copper with density of 8.9 and silver, having a d...
A stealthy heavy weight to share
Most think it is stainless steel until they feel its weight. It has a beautiful strap. Very wearable but you do feel the difference when you take it off at night ...
I am soooo disappointed with you Kari.
I just cannot believe that your calculations failed to bring into account the teeny weeny diamond at 6 o\'clock on the P. Otherwise, you never fail to brighten my day, thank you!
