Officine Panerai

Hi,

I currently have 5 watches in my collection:

Sports Watches:

Blancpain Leman Ultra Slim Grande Date (40mm, black dial, SS bracelet, 100m WR, automatic with grand date complication)

 

IWC Aquatimer 2000 (44mm, white dial, SS bracelet, automatic, 2000m WR,  with a diver's bezel)

Dress Watches:

Chronoswiss Regulateur 24 (40mm, Silver dial, 24 hour format SS regulator, manual wind, 30m WR on a crocodile strap)

 

Glashuette Original Panomatic Lunar (39mm, silver dial, SS bracelet, 30m WR, automatic with a moon phase complication and large date)

 

Jaeger-LeCoultre Reserve (37mm, silver dial, 30m WR, with a power reserve and dial date complication on a crodile strap)

I am considering adding a sixth watch to my collection and Panerai came to mind due to its distinct aesthetics and case shape as possible candidates. I want another dark dialed (likely black) sports watch to add to my mix.  I want a sports watch so the Luminor line seems more appropriate than the Radiomir line. In images, I seem to prefer the dimensional detail of the sandwich dial construction over the printed dial construction.  I want enough water resistance to be able to swim with the watch (typically >100m in my experience).  lastly, I need a running seconds hand.

As a result, I am considering going in one of two different models within the Panerai line by adding  a simple dialed watch that distinguishes itself by its shape and aesthetics (like a PAM 111 or 312).   Let me explain how I view the pros and cons of each based on my limited knowledge and I would like to hear your more experienced questions.

PAM 111

Pros:

+ Thinner case thickness at 14.7 mm

+ Display case back 

+ No date making it easier to set between wears

 

Cons:

- Luminor case (prefer side view of 1950s case) 

- Reliable, yet unremarkable Unitas 6497/2 movement  (no hacking)

- Polished case and bezel not as attactive to me


PAM 312

Pros:

+ In-house 70 hour P9000 calibre  (hacks)

+ 1950s case

+ Display case back

+ I like the brushed/polished aesthetic

+ Easier strap changing

 

Cons:

- Extremely thick case at 17.95 mm

- Date function adds to set up time


So it really comes down to how these two feel on ones wrist and how they will wear (polish vs. brushed).  17.95 mm is far thicker than any of my watches (I believe that my IWC is 44 x 14 mm and I consider it a large watch) so that aspect of the 312 scares me a bit (+4 mm is alot).  I do like the brushed look, the arch of the 1950s case and the quick change strap features. 

The 111 however is attractive for its reduced thickness and ease of set up (no date to be concerned with when setting it up between wears). I do question whether paying >$5k for a 6497/2 (albeit modified with a swan neck, some decoration and a COSC certificate) based watch and how a pollished watch will wear.  On the other hand, I can wipe out scratches with a Cape Cod cloth on a polished case and a brushed case you cannot.

1) Does the crowned/domed crystal of the 312 more difficult to read than the flat crystal of the 111?

2) So what do you guys think about the pros and cons, particularly those of you who have owned either or both of these watches?

3) Lastly, I know that the 177 is also available in a brushed case.  I am concerned how Ti will wear based on other Ti watches that I have owned over the years.  What are your thoughts on this model?

Best,

Bob

 

That's the feeling I get after reading your post. 

To answer your questions:

1) Yes reading is more difficult through the PAM312's domed crystal due to refraction.  But please note that it is not an annoyance.

2) I haven't owned either the PAM111 or PAM312 but I've handled them many times and own similar models.  The biggest con for the PAM111 is the ubiquity of the movement.  The PAM312 looks more refined due to the brushed finished case and polished bezel combo IMO.  Plus, it has the date which is a plus in my book.

3) Titanium PAMs don't seem to have as much appeal as their stainless steel counterparts.  I don't know why but that's just the way how it usually is.  If you're favoring the PAM111 over the PAM312, then you should take a look at the PAM177.  The titanium color is very gray so it gives the watch a different look as opposed to the polished look of the PAM111.

In any case, you can't go wrong with either models - 111, 177, or 312.  They are all fabulous watches!

Cheers,
Anthony

Anthony,

Thanks for taking the time to respond (much appreciated). 

My local AD has a PAM 111 but not a 177 or a 312 *I also heard about an Aug1 US price increase).  I also like the look of the PAM 351 which futher complicates things (Titanium wear still makes me cautious).  I think in the end, I need to see how it sits and feels on my 7-1/4" wrist.  18 mm in thickness is fairly cattywampus so I need to see how it sits in situ before deciding between a 111/177 and a 312/351.  The only reason that I am not thrilled by the addition of a date is that I have that function on 4 other watches and its just another thing to set up in the morning when setting the watch before going to work vs. just setting the time.

Regards,

Bob

No message body This message has been edited by D10 on 2011-07-25 20:32:37

Just in case you forget! Since u mentioned that you don't need to set up the date on 111 but to remind that u have to wind it every 2-3 days making it more of a hassle than just setting the date compared to the 312.

I will likely end up winding both.  My BP has a similar PR and with 5 watches it does not always get worn every 3 days.  Hence my comment.  I wear all of the watches and with six to wear, I will usually end up windning it in the AM. Setting of the hands is easy and so is winding.  Setting the date to the day before and winding the hands is just another step. It is not a deal breaker, just another step.

so I won't go into much detail as in the end, it is just personal preference and I have to concur with Anthony that they're all very nice!  I'm glad you chose simpler models as that is much more Panerai than anything else.  I'm a no date person also!!   The thing that I wanted to point out is that these somewhat "woah" dimensions are less of an issue than you think.  I've had many 42-44mm pieces that looked too bulky or sat very large compared with the 44/45/47mm Panerais.  I don't find them big at all.  I don't have any statistics, but 7" wrists are VERY common, probably the most average wrist size and definitely more than 50% in the Panerai community which goes to say that size is not the problem.  It takes time to get used to, but that's like 1-2 days  I think a luminor (111) case is much easier to get into than a 1950 case (312) so my vote goes to a 111.  I also think rubber straps (for swimming) look better on a 111 than on a 312!  

usually I let me heart lead the way, which turns out quite harmful to my bank account.

 

Can't add more to what the others have said and to what you analyzed except the "passion" factor that can't be measured - you can't go wrong here, go with your heart!

 

Cheers,

 

Asi

i'd say 312 would serve you well, an automatic with 3 days power reserve will be adequate because people i know tends to forget other watches after they acquired the first panerai.

Hi,

At this point, I need to visit a dealer that has a number of watches 111, 177, 312, 351 etc. to see how they feel on my wrist. My local dealer only has 111 currently (I am sure more will arrive in after next weeks price increase...), but that is all among the models that I am interested in. I have tapped out on analysis between them. One can convince oneself either way. It is really a very close decision based on what is important to me. Take a look below (there is no conclusion). The conclusion is that one can argue either way analytically based on what is important (so no help here).

I need to see how they look and feel in-sutu.  I do see lots of photos on wrists where I see the crown guard appearing to be digging into wrists and the back of the wearer's hand.

 

I need to try and 312 or a 351 to understand case height

I need to compare a 111 to 177 to compare brushed Ti to pollished SS

I need to see a 111/177 vs. a 312/351 to understand Luminor vs. 1950s case

I need to compare a 312 to a 351 to understand weight, dial color and hand color

 

I likely need to vist a boutique to find these (I'd be lucky to find these).

Bob

 

 

No message body

While i don't have a 312, i do have a 217 so i have experience with a fiddy case. (that's all for my disclaimer) I also have a 111.

If you want a sporty watch, i would say 312 is more suitable. The polished case of the 111 is a tad dressier. The domed glass doesn't bother me much, in fact, i've grown to love it even more.

I also feel that manual hand wound is more true to Panerai than auto, and that the date indicator adds to clutter. The clean dial of the 111 is more pleasing. All my watches have a date indicator, but for PAM, i refuse to get one that has it.

If i were you, i'd take a look at 111 or 177, and look into the 127 if you want a fiddy case.