Officine Panerai

Trust some of us have seen the sale on some forum . Pam 360 sold at US$30K. Any truth to this and what is your thoughts on the sale. Let hear it from you guys .. THANKS

The PAM360 is a great piece but definitely, absolutely not that "hot" to warrant that price.

Irrational exuberence as Greenspan would say.

- AT

 

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Will be happy to know that they didn't receive the watch they deserve ( which was the original purpose of the release of this watch ) at the entire benefit of some flippers.

I think Panerai should have better checked to who they sold these 360.

But I already heard, once again, so many times the same story...

That is the law of the market.

Sadly.

Best,

Nicolas

I have just posted that I have just had confirmation that I will get one. Absolutely love it, will likely never sell it.

But, imagine some person who is a long-standing member of Paneristi with a real passion for the brand. However, financially perhaps not as affluent as some of his peers on some of these forums. Nevertheless, he bought the 360 and upon buying had every intention of keeping the watch.

But then the market is offering him a substantial premium for his watch, to such an extent that given his financial situation he basically can not afford it not to sell. I do know the sensitivity of what I am writing here, as a person with limited financial means should not be purchasing a luxury watch, but just suppose that my imaginitive friend has limited means and was able to scoop out from his cash pot exactly the funds needed for this 360.

But nevertheless, this person would not sell it for US$1000 profit cause he is not interest in the money. He had really saved this money to buy a special piece should the opportunity arise. But US$20,000 wow that is something different and would allow him to really sort out some other issues. Or use the whole US$30k to buy 5 other PAMS or one high end piece.

Yes it is a shame if someone has his name registered for this watch with the intention of flipping it. But if he did not and was genuinely interested in keeping it, then one could also say that the blame is on the guy who is offering such exorbitant amounts of money that the original owner of the 360 decides to revise his decision. If one applies sufficient pressure, everyone will succumb.

And I think the above applies to all of us!!!! For some, given our financial situation, the price will just be a bit higher. I say I will never sell, but if I guy walks up to me and offers me US$200k for the watch: please here you have it. Do you want it packed and with a gift wrap around it as well sir?

In reality the truth will be somewhere in the middle. And yes, a lot of flippers with dollar signs in there eyes find their way to these lists. Its a shame for the real collectors.

But its indeed the law of the market. As a former trader I know... For every willing buyer there has to be a willing seller. We are all in this madness together

Isnt it beautiful?

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One thing is to not be able to resist to an insane offered price, another thing is to offer a watch at an insane price.

I think a true Paneristi, I mean a passionate and sincere collector, wouldn't even imagine playing this game.

Therefore, to be a Paneristi is to belong to a Community.

That watch was supposed to belong to the Community, and was released for the Community.

I don't think that this kind of behaviour is in harmony with the Community spirit, but I may have a weird notion of what a Community has to be.



Best,

Nicolas

This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-10-08 08:01:18 This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-10-08 08:04:33

Whilst I understand your points, I agree, of course situations varies and changes, of course people can want, exchange or replace their watches, even make a few to maintain their collection.  But Panerai and P.com is said to be a Family. 

 

PAM 360 is first a 10 years Anniversary, therefore produced to inaugurate followership, friendship, better known and referred as a Family.  We are entitled to think that it will therefore be foremost reserved for those passionated followers.  It is depressing to hear the sadness expressed by too many enthusiasts made not worthy whilst smarter privileged few moneyrai instantly thanks to a Family’s spirit.

But in those days, who are we to know what's right or wrong, 'elegance' and 'respect' could easily be wiped out the dictionary...

I'm sure you know too well that the distribution can NEVER be perfect.    

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Those privileged few; so-called ‘passionate collectors’ are often those very guys that beneficiate a great deal.  We saw it before, with the likes of PAM 195/PAM203 being close to instantly sold for a large premium, yeah, that’s love...

Poor taste if you ask me.  But I feel so lucky here, I did NOT and do NOT want a PAM 360 however truly attractive it is.

 

I feel truly sorry for those that feel let down, because I remember my own resentment and frustration, what ever wisdom advices I received, none could help my sentiments when denied from what I wanted most. 

 

I feel so lucky to have truly matured up over matters of this sort.

 

Life goes on, and this matters most.

This message has been edited by PoyFR on 2010-10-08 07:46:26

 

 what makes it a big deal... what made the 360 a big deal in first place things are as simple as this its an item it was bought in first place... it simple can get sold in second ... speaking of pam 360 do you see panerai coming out with a clone version of it in 2011 .

 

 Faisal

You want me to put one for sale for 100K or maybe 7K ?

All you need is some pictures and an asshole who got the watch I should have gotten :-(   :-(   :-(   :-(   :-(

and afaik those were mended

Cheers,

Asi

Each has is personnal view of course but you can look at the 360 from different angles,  some who will see it as a sentimental object they will try to tell you it's about 'community' (whatever that may present) it's about 'tribute' , it's about 'being a part of a group of enthousiasts', or in honnor of moderator who passed away a year ago.   All that is fine but what's wrong if you just like the watch for what it is ??? a great watch (at least if you like it of course) or just that one piece you find attractive because it has that nice 'vintage' look ... also these points could make you dearly want one with the same drive as other people loved it for the other reason.  Just don't try to convince each other why your motive is the 'only and the right one'.  

Now comes the point if you may sell such a watch, here again there's the sentimental group who will drag you to hell if you do while for the other ones it can just be 'the moneymaker' to buy your ultimate grail you've been dreaming of so long .... as long as there is a guy standing on your doorstep with the price you wanted to sell it for I personally don't see a big problem. Paying a ridiculous premium is not forbidden you just have to find the guy that gives himself enough reason to buy it from you and make him happy on his turn (maybe the 360 was his grail)...everyone happy!

The thing is that is watch has become to much pointed out as a 'sentimental' piece with all the consequenses we see now.  I don't talk about the way it has been distributed that's an other discussion IMO,   look at it as a LE distributed by your local dealer, he also I'm sure has a list of clients who will be able to get the watch first, nothing new here!  Why would it have been different with the 360 ?

In conclusion I think you should give people the freedom of selling what they've paid for when they want and for how much they want , some will even regret later that they did I'm sure ... wouldn't that be the best lesson you can learn ??

 

just my 2c

I couldn't care less. Everybody is free to do whatever they want. It is utopia to try and determine (and condemn) other people's actions, based on what WE would do, in the same circumstances. It spanks of bigotry and has nothing to do with a "free world" everyone of us, hopes to live in... IMHO...

Cheers - Sergio

The limited 300 watches only sold to those hand picked due to loyalty or friendship is quite ELITIST. So if anyone wants to join the exclusive club, a 30k buy-in is required:  http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=147010

 

 

I must said its like Economics, two sides of it .  Personally , i feel sad if the transaction is true. The reason is that there are so many true risti who have not got the watch.  Again the question, how they chose the 300 owners is really getting strange.

The only times which someone of us mention "allow" to sell is due to fiancial situatiuon, health problems, owner no longer around. I totally agreed to this as life is more than a watch.

Well again , a friend ask me if someone offer to sell at 10k , would u buy?  I was caught in my thoughts!

In the end this is just how the economy works, Panerai as an enterprise make the most out of it as this is one of the best marketing strategy that works.
well..with all the respect of Paneristis and true collectors.

What is your point of view.

Eddy

On one hand, if one owns a watch he/she can do as they please.......

however. if one buys a watch for the sole purpose to resell it, that one is a flipper...
it is your decision to buy from that person or not... this is the law of the market....

now there are some manufacturers that react to flippers.
For example Patek Philippe blacklists persons that flip their watches. they follow the market.
If someone tries to sell for example a 5131 they will never be allowed to buy a limited watch and probably will not
be able to buy from a PP boutique...

Now if someone sells because of financial needs or because he/she regretted buying a certain watch,
that could also be a possibility... (but usually they do not sell at a profit)

But at the end of the day, it is a free market....

Cheers

is only crazy if no one buys it. The moment someone purchases this watch its a point on the graph, and if it is duplicated it becomes a trend. I would imagine those that got these watches don't exactly mind this flipper making their piece worth a lot more even if they have no intention of selling it.

simple answer to me is to produce it in regular production. if paneristi are truly a community then it should be quite welcoming to all new joiners and hence it should be available to all who want it...if the purpose is to create a watch for loyal paneristi. If they produced it in sufficient numbers prices wouldn't be driven to crazy levels and the flippers would look for easier fish to fry... so the reality is that panerai is well aware of the phenomenon (come on - there have to more than 300 true paneristi!) and consciously contributes to it to ensure the brand 'retains value'... and we continue to believe that it's worth the prices we pay. just my 2 cents

OpC

There are two for sale now on Ebay:

120634359876

230538856231

One is a fixed buy it now price at $32,995 and the other one is an auction, interesting to see where the auction ends.

Yes, there would be buyers, same thoughts- to see what comes out at the end. 

One big feature of this brand is it's being "FLIPPABLE" and to be honest, it makes this brand attractive in many ways... let's not fool ourselves. How many watches out there can command such following and such a big exchange market and excellent value retention. For me, I am not a flipper but I can see why others would do it. It is the main reason the watch has achieved such status as it is today.

It's so easy to rig the market. The watch itself is nothing to shout about. I "applied" for one, and was rejected. There are 300 of them and we don't know how many applied...let's say 30000 for argument sakes....that's 1000 times oversubscipted. But if PAM priced it correctly @ 30k, how many of the 30000 subscribers would still apply?

I am not noble enough to say if I get a allocation to say I WILL never sell it. Truth be told, even at 20k, I will be selling it already. I love the brand, but I don't worship it, or love it that much!

Also I question the intentions of Panerai. If it is really for the paneristis, then might as well take orders, and fill everyone? It's so easy. For one month, all paneristis who place a deposit will get their desired watch, thru that forum mechanism. That will kill all speculators and make every paneristi happy.

Whole exercise, instead of rewarding loyalists, becomes a cynical insider exercise.