Omega

This is a question I throw out to the whole community: I have an OMEGA chronometre (30T2SC rg) that needs a proper dial refinish. The original dial has already been refinished, so I would not be spoiling a great original dial. I have had lots of experience with dials done at Kirk Rich, and sometimes they are great and sometimes they are not. I have been told that there are some superior dial refinishers in Europe. Can anyone recommend what they think (or have heard) is the BEST dial refinisher for a project such as mine? I would appreciate any advice or thoughts about your own experiences. Many thanks.....Michael Laskin

PS: I have also heard that there are NOS dials around occasionally. I tend to doubt that most of those are really original NOS dials, but any information on that might also be of use - thanks

Hi Michael,

actually I have experienced work of 2 of the "superior" or let´s say well known European dial restorers yet.

Both of them are located in Germany: Bethge and Causemann.

Output was very "mixed" or "unsteady" - sometimes it was a pleasant redial sometimes it was just sh... and had to be sent back for a redo... Sometimes it was necessary to send it back twice!

Non of them works constantly...  if he has a good day output might be super - if had had little sleep the preceding night (or too much beer...) the outcome would be accordingly.

And they ask quite a lot of money!

So I would not recommend one of them!

I am still searching for a perfect restorer myself - so if somebody knows please chime in!

I have already resigned a little bit and I have started to buy only watches which do not need any restoration on the dial - it is much more pleasant than the anger about bad redials, the hassle sending them back for a redo and the very long waiting period...

For the NOS dial you mentioned:

They are claimed to be NOS but in fact they are NOT! They are of unknown provenance (origin) - they are believed to have been manufactored somewhere in the 90ies and were NOT released by Omega themselves as replacement dials. They were sold on watch trader shows (e.g. Munich) and also on the internet.

But they are a proper solution and look much better than any redone dial I have seen yet.

They could be an esthetically pleasing alternative!

kind regards

Erich 

.....I have already resigned a little bit and I have started to buy only watches which do not need any restoration on the dial - it is much more pleasant than the anger about bad redials, the hassle sending them back for a redo and the very long waiting period...

                                                                                                                                             oOo

Hi Erich.

  Reading your post then searching the net, I found your first post here

    omega.watchprosite.com

   I think I have one 2367 with original dial.

      

  I already talked to a guy in VietNam about making a die from it and he guarantied he can do the job 98% the same ( with embossed letters and rings etc...) It will cost 170 USD for the new die and each dial after that will be 15 usd. He only drinks beer after he gets paid (not before).

   I will let you know and post some pics when he finishes the job.

   Regards.

 

   Hoi.

Hoi,

thank you for the interesting news!

please keep me informed

best

erich

What a coincidence. I faced this same dilemma, a few years ago for the same watch, in near identical circumstance. I too have a 30T2, with 2 original dials plus another spare redone, and so wanted to go ahead and redo the one which was poorly redone in the past. I finally did not give my dial to a European dial maker, although Causemann in Germany was HIGHLY recommended, and settled instead on Dialcraft in Canada. They took quite long, about three months from the time it went to the time I got it back (in India), but they did a fantastic job that I remain satisfied with on my watch. This was a three-tone dial, two-shades of silver, and gold and they did it looking at low res images of the original as the original had long since been spoilt. The price they charged me was a total of something close to 130 canadian dollars in Oct 2008, which was way under what the European dial makers were asking for the same job. Pm me if you require the address, and contact numbers for them Pictures of the finished dial attached.

Hi Rishad.

  Thanks for your post and pictures. I am very meticulous and picky, especially when I am dealing with vintage dials. To me, the script must look like this to be correct for the dials in that era, particularly the Rg Chronometres.

      In case there is no Omega logo on the dial, this one will be in place for those plain dials.

        

   I also prefer to see the Thin and small Omega Logo, the Round one is too new and won't fit.

      

  The guy will print it twice to make the letters embossed. (he said)

 

   Hi Mike.

   I know he has skill and can do a good job but it's not enough for him to move to Switzerland or anywhere. Let's wait and see how things turn out. ( I will be his advisor in this job)

   Best regards.

    Hoi.

Sorry to say, but this dial redo is far from perfect.

Wrongly shaped Omega logo, "chronometre" is far too large, script is too bold, circle lines too bold...

I think Causemann would have done it better, especially the "wording"...

But maybe I am too picky too...

best

Erich

he should move to Switzerland or Germany and make a living there as a dial refinisher.  I share Erich's concerns - no dial refinisher to my knowledge is consistently excellent. 
Keep me updated about this fellow as well.
Mike

Hi again,
Yes, I do see the differences, now that you point them out to me.
I thought I was picky too! But I have to say, the job on my watch was/ is good enough for me. I guess this is more due to my being used to the really pathetic re-dials we get in my part of the world. I don't have any watches with something to show you pics of, but I guarantee they would bring tears to your eyes.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers,
Rishad

As I understand it, you need to find a refinisher who specializes in the brand you need done in order to best match the particular fonts and logos used and has the library of these dies to use. You don't want someone who isn't familiar with the nuance of your model's dial to refinish it.

I just stumbled across this site in Israel that describes the process and all the variables well. I cannot vouch for their work.

www.dialrefinish.net

Forgot to mention,
Omega is sadly out of NOS dials for 30T2 Chronometers.
I had written to them at the same time in 2008 asking the same, and was informed their stock had exhausted.
The more I look at my dial after reading your posts above, the more I am starting to feel it may just have to go across the world for another redial someday (smile).
I know and see (now) that both of you are absolutely correct in what you have pointed out.
Thanks, its always good to learn something.
Rishad

Hi Rishad.

  I am quite sure that you are becoming picky like us. And someday, even if you find a refinished dial which is 100% the same like the original, you're still not happy.

    Why ? because deep in your mind, you know it's not original and that feeling will bother you, stop you from enjoying it completely.

   But that is collecting vintage watches all about, it's the hunt for the rarest, the most beautiful that left out there and when you find it, you possess it, you show it to your friends then you grin happily.

  BTW, here are 2 refinished dials that were done by another guy in VN, cost 7 usd each.

      

 

     

your standards rise the more dials you look at. And eventually, even a 'perfect' repaint will not do.

Having said that, the 2nd Omega dial you posted below is not a bad job, at least not considering what he charges. Good value, certainly.

I've attached before and after pics of a dial I had repainted here in Oz, for significantly more than your guy. To my eye anyway, the track marks on your example are finer and more even, and the fonts are closer to the original.

the subtilties in fonts that Omega used . I would rather have them say they did not have the same logos in their files and decline the job rather than go ahead and do it with an incorrect letterform..

  It cost me more than 200 usd (shipping included) to have this printed on my dial.

    

  Nothing close to the original.

   

  I had to put it aside and really don't know what to do with it.    Sigh.....

    

that we must be vigilant and proactive when it comes to dial refinishers.
Make sure we give them good instruction as to what we want to see done instead of simply relying on them to do it correctly.

I agree with that sentiment. I have even gone so far as to include excellent pictures of watches with correct original dials as a template, and still....it's not always perfect. Because of this I almost never buy a watch that needs a dial refinish.....but I made an exception with this one. Still looking for the right solution.

Yes,
I agree, original is unbeatable. I only had my 30T2 redone because I already had 2 other original dials spare in hand for the watch.
This thread taught me quite a bit. Interesting.
Rishad

me think whether the original brand can do the job?

. . . with Omega's service department regarding dial restoration. His words, in effect, were they don't guarantee the results. The quoted cost for his '59 Seamaster dial was steep, too.

No guarantee on a factory re-dial must be in place to safeguard themselves from the likes of picky purists like us. I'm still confident, Omega would do a really good job so it would probably be worth the premium they are charging.
They made the original, so it stands to reason they could do it just as well, if not better once again. I would trust Omega, having enjoyed really good experiences with them (unlike some other Swiss brands that have let me down once the sales bit is through) whenever I required vintage parts or service backup for my watches.

A few years backI had a horrible experience with JLC, sending a vintage dial off to Switzerland for a refinish, and it came back very poorly done - and at an ENORMOUS price in money and time. I don't think any of the Swiss brands refinish dials themselves - I am sure they farm this work out to whoever they think is the best dial refinisher. So, if effect, we could simply go to that refinisher ourselves and eliminate the middleman. The reality is that this is an inexact science, no matter who is doing it. Sometimes you get lucky with a re-dial, and sometimes not. I am looking for a definitive answer, and there appears to be none.

    I have seen a so so refinished dial which was shown in a forum and lots of people gave it very generous praise. It's time for those refinishers to do a better job and we should let them know that.

 

  Look at this

                  

 and this

 

                

 

      they  were from a famous redial house in LA. (and it's not cheap)

They don't do it in house, as I understand it.

.. I did it once (Constellation dial -about 12 years ago) bringing it to the factory in Bienne and the result was absolutely pathetic (wrong color - text at least 5° out of the horizontal !). Second time around -after refusal- only slightly better, but it was the best they could do...  Quickly sold the watch (with a loss).

Ben.