Horological Meandering

Recently I had a discussion about luxury. My counterpart told me that knowledge usually ruins luxury.
At least he said, it will allow you to make some sort of evaluation about the added value.

From my point of view luxury is nonsense without knowledge. There is much more about luxury
than what we get told by some luxury groups today, isn´t it?

(Example: watch books only, without magazines …)

 

What is your point of view?

 

Oliver

To me, to truly appreciate a luxury, it requires a certain degree of knowledge. I know from experience that when I have experienced something of true quality, my appreciation for it varies according to how knowledgable I am. Perhaps there is an issue here between luxury and quality, as i am using the terms interchangeably.... perhaps that is wrong.

Your friend is quite wrong.

But luxury that holds up against scrutiny (and be sure that it doesn't take much to destroy decades of work and focus) is the only true luxury.

And luxury cannot be bought, not true luxury anyway, it has to be earned with time and dedication. But so many seem to think they can put a big price tange on an item and it must be luxurious. Nope.

Great library, Oliver.

Andrew

...but for a different reason. 

"Marry her and that initial 'wow' goes away."

But if you made the perfect decision (based on some knowledge ) ... you will probably get something even better.
For example, my grand aunt used to taught me: "Before you marry a girl you should have a look at her mother. If you like her as well, go for it."

The magic of the first moment is great, but works for one-night stands as well. Real beauty needs much more than a nice body only ;-)

Of course I get your point, but still think there is some kind of  knowledge needed to take the right decison without regrets.

Not all one-night stands, impulse purchases ... are that good ...

But I agree the good ones are amazing

Imagine a gorgeous model which has a very strong/strange accent, imagine a huge piece of truffel ... coming from China instead of Italy or France, imagine ...

Cheers,
Oliver

I can't help laughing when I read that some brands claim to be luxury brands...

Best,

Nicolas

Oliver,

From my point of view, Nicolas nailed exactly what I have tried to formulate since I read your post earlier today!

"Knwoledge kills " SUPPOSED " luxury, while it helps to appreciate " TRUE " Luxury."

 

Best

Blomman

Nicolas camp here
It can work both ways so as stupidly and naive as it may sound you and your fried are
right in your own
Knowing a lot makes you more prone to BS
and that necesserily kills some joy....
at least the openhearted one.
Best
D

most consumers of luxury items are not particularly discerning, and are every bit as susceptible to marketing as lower end consumers. For the most part, they purchase luxury items because they are expensive, and because of brand awareness.

... than the average person is to require "knowledge" as a component of luxury. Some degree of knowledge is what draws us to this place and keeps us here. Of course, the value we place on any given aspect of horological knowledge (e.g., history of the brand, degree of finishing of the movement, whether all parts are manufactured in-house, etc.) varies hugely from person to person. But each of us really wants to know about SOMETHING in depth before we pull the trigger on our next timepiece, or before we fall in love with a particular brand or model.

I think you'd get vastly different answers to your question from people who enter a dealer's showroom without little or no prior knowledge and then exit shortly thereafter with expensive watches on their wrists.

My personal perspective? The definition of "luxury" is "the state of great comfort and extravagant living." To fully experience this, I need to ignore, suppress, or repress the realities of those less fortunate in the world around me (e.g., people who are living hand-to-mouth). Guilt, as much as (lack of) knowledge, detracts from the degree to which I can experience "luxury." Experiencing luxury requires a significant degree of "guilt management."

Now, if I'm talking specifically about the relationship between "knowledge" and "luxury," I'd say "it depends upon the person's ability to think in relative terms, and also how that person resolves cognitive dissonance." EXAMPLE: Let's say a particular high-end watch makes you feel luxurious because when you put it on, you know you're wearing one of the very few watches that is made 100% in-house -- absolutely every component. Then, you learn from a fellow collector that one (and literally just one) component of that watch is outsourced. That one component is not made in house because the manufacturer determined that its supplier can make that component in bulk better (and yes, cheaper) than the manufacturer could make it. For some people, that bit of additional knowledge may ruin (or at least significantly detract from) their ability to experience that watch as "luxurious" because they'd now see the watch as fraudulent, as a shattered dream. For others, they'd say, "This watch is still made from far more in-house components than just about any other watch, and the fact that the manufacturer is using the best available outsourced component in the world makes it even MORE luxurious to me." I choose to resolve my cognitive dissonance in latter way!
This message has been edited by CR on 2013-08-29 06:36:16

What a great phrase - it encapsulates the essence of being a Purist.

I can tell you, that Brand X watches are so good, the steel gears have their teeth milled and the actual tiny gear teeth themselves are polished.  By hand!  Using WOOD!!  

. . . lies in exclusivity, not quality.  Both are requisite, but only exclusivity is necessary and sufficient; quality is merely necessary. 

For most of the world versus the one we PuristS use? Is there a threshold where too much information ruins the perception of luxury? 

MTF

But knowledge turned what I thought was just supposedly luxury to passion.

is that high end expensive "Luxury items" are in several cases not as reliable or as well built as much less expensive items.  With watches I think I am buying a work of art, not the most accurate or reliable watch.  The same can apply to cars or any other luxury item.  One particular very high end car come to mind, the cars are amazing but the stereo is junk, when I question this the answer that is always given is the only music you will want to hear is that of the engine.

Cheers,

--

Richard.

Oliver,

 

Thanks for the dilemma.....

 

Previously, I defined luxury with "cost" by saying, "The true cost of luxury is the choice that it affords."

I am drawn to both your friend's and your viewpoints, thus hinting that there is more than one definition of luxury beyond being in a state of extravagance.  Others have mentioned the distancing of self from guilt to enjoy luxury or resolve cognitive / aesthetic dissonance. 

The keyword may be 'knowledge' rather than 'luxury' that we have all focused upon. What characteristic of knowledge affects our experience of luxury? 

 

I tried to recall my experience in the year 2001 B.P. (Before PuristS) compared to now.

I think, then, I enjoyed the Luxury of Innocence.

That is why I bought variations of Roger Dubuis "limited editions with matched dials" or Ulysse Nardin perpetual calendars with equal extravagance. This was irrespective of the fact that ALL the simple Roger Dubuis watches broke down at least once (some repeatedly) and none of the Ulysse Nardin specimens ever needed repair.

I also embarked on a quest for at least one example of every FP Journe movement introduced; without regard for the Quality Control or Gallic Indifference to after-sales service. See below.

 

 

 

 
 

 

I even paid upfront for RD and FPJ watches while in the boutique that required return to repair workshop before becoming fit-for-delivery !

 

 

After PuristS, I may have lost the 'Luxury of Innocence' but could discover the true blue Innocence of Luxury filled with Passion, Opinion and Information. I think I gained something more in the trade-off.

 

 

 

Regards,

MTF

This message has been edited by MTF on 2013-08-30 02:51:23

Knowledge limits us on some points:

- To ignore "fads"
- Avoid pure marketing plots
- Blocks us from acquisitions of adulterated pseudo vintage pieces
- Avoid companies that don't provide good service
.
.
.
- And the list goes.

By and large, A.P. (after Purists), I am much more strict on what I like/acquire than before.

One example:

Other day, a friend of mine was about to acquire a watch.
A quick look and I stated: "the crown is wrong, the hands are incorrect and the case is over polished".

His reply was interesting: "You and your readings are removing the fun of watch collecting".

He, after this statement, acquired the watch.

Lesson learned. Keep the knowledge to myself.

Cheers,

Nilo

which I appreciated a lot. Once more, it is great to be a Purist


Let me add some quotes:

• "The best things in life are free. The second best are very expensive." Coco Chanel
• "It is much better to enjoy a rose petal, as to lay their roots under the microscope ." Oscar Wilde
• "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." Oscar Wilde
• "I adore simple pleasures. They are the last refuge of the complex." Oscar Wilde
• ...

HAGWE,

Oliver

Here's another one:

"I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best."

Another french writer once said: " The truth is not always good to hear, that's why we rarely tell it. "

I don't remember if he's Sacha Guitry or Pierre Dac. But that is brilliant.

I realized while reading the replies that I don't like to think of my watches as luxury so much as quality.  Maybe I fool myself to a degree.

No message body

thanks

Oliver