Independents

I don't really understand Roger Smith. The watches seem to be pretty basic and even sloppy relative to something like Gauthier, Dufour, etc... in the same price range?

When I saw the defects at the. 7 and 8 , I couldn't believe that a watch at that price point would look like that. I'm sure he was aware of it and too lazy to correct it. Pitiful

...rectangular watches in person waaaay back in the day. That thing haunted me for years...part of the charm was that is was rough in a good way. It looked exactly like something made by one man in his garage. But even at a reasonable price (compared to now) I couldn't afford one. 

The piece unique Nautilus that Daniels fit a co-axial into may be the only exception extant. Omega's Tresor line may make it happen in their next iteration in a few years.

The 2021 Tresor is listed as 10.02 or something...

Was recently auctioned for 500k

Writer and others seem to say the flaws noted aren't typical of other Roger Smith pieces. I've never seen one in person so no personal opinion one way or another but it sounds like this isn't representative of most of their watches.... Or maybe it is. I guess at these production levels you have to look at each watch on its own merit?

And LOVE it, I was like you for many years, could not understand the RWS type independent watchmakers world of 100 watches made over many years.  Then as time went on and with the help of some friends I got it, yes you can own lots of independents, and I own many, but there are the ones that are more special because of their dedication to the art of watchmaking.  Watchmakers that have dedicated their live to keep watchmaking alive from the 1700 and1800 hundreds not only keep the history alive but improve on it.  

It is not an issue with my series 2 RWS 40mm, I don’t know what it I like on the 38mm.  I can tell you the watch fits fine under a cuff with it’s rounded case and crystal, if fact the watch seems very balanced and one of the reason wearing it is a pleasure.  It is up to the wearer, I don’t like thin watches, at least the 8mm kind, I’ve bought my share and for the most part sold them.  The heft of a watch and feeling it on my wrist gives me pleasure and why I own my share of platium watches.…Jim

This isn't a typical example, as you should know. However, the question is a good one. I'd say Roger is a self-taught watchmaker who apprenticed under George Daniels, and his work shows all of that. If one wants a machine made and finished watch, that is what Patek Philippe is for

*Of course, Roger uses CNC machines and is planning to coat his movements in ADLC to eliminate the need for lubricants (and likely to eliminate the flaw of the co-axial, which needs to be lubricated ordinarily), so "hand-made" is a relative term pointing to a degree of hand-work in the watch.

But yes, much of his education comes from Daniels no doubt.
I’m very interested to learn more about his frictionless nanotechnology experiments. It’s been tried before, but the process of depositing the material has greatly improved, and a small maker like himself might be able to pull it off since he doesn’t need to scale the process up.

Is it any more handmade than what Gauthier or Dufour are doing?

Before he moved workshops and bought the CNC lathe, yes. A couple of years ago he posted a picture on instagram with a new CNC lathe. Before that, the case, pinions, as well as wheels were made by hand, on a regular (or even 3) Schaublin 70. Mainplates and bridges were made using a cnc mill. The dial and hands are still made by hand.
Dufour doesn't make components in house. So in that area, Smith is more "involved" with the parts in his movements. Dufour's dial is also outsourced to Metalem.
Gauthier does everything in house I believe, with a very impressive workshop. The finishing is "higher" than the Smith, but the philosophy isn't the same. And I suspect that there's more handmade operations for the Smith, and more handmade finishing in the Gauthier
My 2cts

Has owned a CNC machine since at least 2008

I am aware of that, a red kern. This is a CNC mill, and if I recall this one is only 3axis. Only mainplates, bridges and some springs can be done with that.
However, (and I just checked on instagram) since may 2019 he now has at least one CNC lathe. This can make screws, wheels, cases.

Which also raises another important point. Roger has significantly modified and improved the coaxial escapement over the years. His current movement requires tolerances that are likely much too great for "traditional" lithes. The use of CNC machines is not a shortcut but rather a necessity to create his vision of a perfect timekeeper.
Roger Smith's one and only goal is to create the perfect mechanical watch. Whatever tools that are necessary to achieve that goal will be employed. And when you commission a piece by RWS, you engage with that philosophy.

Do you know who makes cases for Dufour?
Regarding difference in manufacturing, it is interesting that even George Daniels had Derek Pratt make escape wheel pinions and probably other stuff as well on his spark erosion machine.
I actually consider Derek Pratt on the same level as George in terms of skills mastered (or perhaps even a notch above) . He even cut diamonds for pallets (H4 piece), made cases, cut crystals etc. A mechanical genius and master of finishing, superior to George imo. (his engine turning is second to none).

I am happy to see it more out in the open so to speak.
Personality certainly plays a big role in this, and I feel a bit disappointed about Georges lack of acknowledgement, but I guess that this trait made him have succes at all costs.

On a tangent, I prefer openness, which I believe will actually be a positive thing for certain watch manufactures highlighting the expertise of external artisans doing their best. MB&F comes to mind.
Let's just put the whole notion of "inhouse" to rest. It's not 2010 anymore ;-)

There is a certain purity to his watches that appeals to me.  They are a distillation of a perfect (for me) watch that is built to last hundreds of years.  

Kari values thick plates and screws for long term durability. I like this approach as well. Built to outlive any of us.

Like burning wood.

It is a choice.

GD learned him to produce perfect finished watches. (made by hand)
RS is on his own feet, and can decide which direction he go.

I like perfect shiney watches, Swiss school.
But i like also the raw and honest presence of a RS time peace.

For those that have paid a deposit I understand they are unaffected.  For anyone else whom had been on the fence about a 5k deposit to secure a place in line then I guess the message may be check back in a few years.  

which will allow Roger to satisfy most of his current orders before taking on new ones but when orders do re open in the next few years, there will be a mad rush for his pieces especially as used prices will probably escalate in the mean time,