Zenith

Can Anyone PLEASE give me advice ???? do I service my 2002 Zenith el primero which Never gave me any trouble at all ,,,and TRUST a local Zenith qualified watchmaker to overhaul my watch????????this is really a scary dilema that I would imagine many high end watch enthusiasts might also fear..................Do I or don't I ??? Is there anything to be afraid of??   Thanks      Mark

That all depends on how the watch is performing.  My general rule is that if the watch is within your tolerance for keeping time then I would not service.  I guess one can take the route of preventative maintenance but why try to fix what is already working.

Back to the original concept… Is the watch keeping time to your liking.

Good luck and I look forward to hearing others thoughts on the matter.

Thanks

Bill

. . . the relatively high beat of the EP movement should, at least theoretically, lend to a more conservative approach. To put it simply, an El Primero will have experienced a quarter more wear over the same period of usage as most current movements, and double that in comparison to movements that were commonplace when the EP was introduced. That's the essential reason why I'm hesitant to acquire a vintage model, save for specimens that have documented service history at Manufacture recommended intervals.

Marcus has far more experience as he's owned three EPs to my none, so let's wait for his informed perspective . . . cordially, Art This message has been edited by Dr No on 2011-02-03 21:45:42

You are speaking purely hypothetically - we should all never buy vintages for a number of reasons .
I have an EP from 1991, bought used that runs like a top. Came from a friend of mine. Will probably get serviced in a few years or when there is a noticeable problem. More likely when it has a problem since it gets worn infrequently and is not on a winder.
This message has been edited by mrsnak on 2011-02-04 17:13:59

. . . El Primero, and not "vintage" in general . . .

20 or 40 years. You can tell how well a watch has been treated.

I would split your question into two:

- have the service performed by LVMH or by independent; and

- when to service.

1. It is said that El Primero, due to its high frequency, requires some parts to be lubricated by a dry lubricant, molybdene bisulfide applied by vaporisation, instead of ordinary oiling. Therefore, I would be very careful to whom to hand my EP over for service. (NB that El Primero adjusted for Rolex beats at 28,8 vph thus permitting traditional oiling, therefore even Rolex skilled watchmakers may not be a good choice).

2. I have been facing a similar dilemma recently since the older of my EPs started to slow down in rate when the chrono is actuated while without chrono, decrease of amplitude and rate in vertical positions can still be considered acceptable. To be on the safe side, I would tend not to wait any longer and send her to spa... I.e. I consider to have my watches serviced when they change their typical behaviour, rather then by servicing in fixed intervals. For reasons highlighted by Art, I will appreciate any comments on this approach.

petr

 

Hi, I have 2 El Premiros 4021 and 410 (of 4100), the zeniths use a solid type lubricant for their movements which looks after the moving parts as in the case of a liquid lubricant it may dry up but no so in the case of Zenith, so one really need not worry about that. Your usage of the watch will determine the service interval.
Secondly i would not trust any odd service centre for the El premiro,as it has a very high beat, I would ask Zenith over the mail for the right service centre or try to send the watch to Le locle(if possible) as they have everything there. Zeniths if tampered with tend to get a little temperamental so one should be careful in case one is opening them, after which they take a long time to settle and work to optimum.
Hope it helps.

I had serviced two of my El Primeros by a Zenith authorized service facility, and both times received back a watch that looked and performed like new. However, I think that the need of a service mostly depends on the watch's usage: If you have worn it only infrequently, with barely any activation of the chronograph mechanism at all, even eight years might be a short operative time of the watch.

Regards,
Marcus

I have a Zenilth El Primero HW that I bought used nearly two years ago. I have no record of its service history, and I have been wondering whether or not I should send it in for a cleaning. BUT, it operates flawlessly and given some of the horrow stories I have read about Zenith's service in this country, I have been reluctant to do anything.  This string of responses suggests that is not a bad appraoch, i.e, wait until performance validates the need for service!

Hi Mark,

The short answer: The second most dangerous thing a watch can come into contact with is a watchmaker (#1 being salt water) and the El Primero is a complicated mess of a movement and should not be entrusted to just anybody, so wait until it stops keeping time before sending it in for Zenith factory service; since they don't generally charge for movement parts, the service charges will likely be the same either way.

Watchmakers break watches. Obviously not all watchmakers and all watches, but it's safe to say that watches are less likely to perform reliably after service than they are fresh from the factory. There's just no way to optimize service processes across the huge number of watchmakers out there in the same manner that one can do so with a manufacturing facility. Variability in performance is guaranteed to be higher after service and, more tragically, aesthetic damage to dials and hands can also sometimes result. Of course there are some exceptional watchmakers out there that will beat the curve on most or all counts, but finding these watchmakers AND knowing that you've found them is not at all easy. Remember Mark Twain's quote: "When your watch gets out of order you have a choice of two things to do: throw it in the fire or take it to the watch-tinker. The former is the quickest."

The El Primero is a hugely complicated movement compared to the vast majority of the watches out there, including other chronographs. It has plenty of visual intrigue on the movement side that can be "enjoyed' through a display back, but it also has some engineering, um, solutions... under the dial that are basically byzantine in nature (the conveyor for the hour recorder and the weird stack of gears for the hand setting train specifically). The more parts a watch has, the more possibility for variability exists, especially after service. A highly experienced watchmaker will know exactly where to look for wear and how to properly address the issues found, but an independent service center that is NOT charging you for parts will be more reluctant to swap parts that they don't absolutely have to, gambling parts costs against the potential for a comeback.

The issue of charges for movement parts is the number one reason to NOT service your watch "regularly" AND to use factory service. In my experience, factory service centers do not charge for movement parts unless serious abuse is found (Remember the salt water? DO get the watch water tested once per year if it ever comes within 50 meters of water: Rusty movements are more expensive to service for everybody.). So while you may be saving the movement of your watch a little bit of internal wear and tear, because the labor involved in an overhaul is the lion's share of what you're paying for with service and the service center is going to charge you the same amount for "routine" or "failure intervention" service and give you the same service warranty, the financial advantage to regular service for the watch owner is zero.

The notable exception to the above advice is where it concerns a piece with hard to find replacement parts. With some vintage pieces and/or independent watchmaker creations, you will be much happier for having changed the oil rather than risking wearing out a part that cannot easily be replaced.

_john

. . . I may.

Is there a span of time over which you would tend to recommend servicing rather than waiting for the watch to fail? Worst case scenario in my experience was a '63 Constellation chronometer on the wrist of a diner seated next to me at a local café. I asked him about the watch, and he said he was the original owner; when the inevitable question about the last service came up, the answer was never. That would make it ~ 45 years without a service. My question is, shouldn't there be a broad span of time, varying with the level of usage, that would mitigate for service as a sensible precaution?

I can't believe the gorgeous gold Connie on that guy's wrist encased a movement in good condition, even though it was still operational . . .

Strictly pragmatically speaking, you should service it before it becomes vintage and parts become hard to find.

_john

. . . this is referred to as The Watchmaker's Dilemma ;-) . . .

As to the first question, should you service it, unless the watch is running slow and giving signs of being in need of lubrication, I wouldn't service it.

Regarding trusting your local Zenith watchmaker, why not? That he's local is advantage as opposed the sending it cross country and then trying to solve issues over the phone. If he's Zenith authorized, presumably he's as trustworthy as any other Zenith watchmaker elsewhere.