Zenith

I recently sat down for (much more than) a coffee with the CEO of an eminent supplier to the Swiss watch industry, and knowing that I am PPro Zenith moderator, he brought along his Zenith El Primero De Luca, precisely a late example of version 1 which he acquired in 1998 to celebrate his 30th birthday:



This desirable piece is a prime example for what I'd like to call 'Horological Youngtimers' - the watches of our youth which, like cars, were unobtainable for us back then. These days however, they are on the brink of being considered 'vintage', but still constructed with comparatively modern technology: they offer all we appreciate from contemporary watches with the allure taking us back a few years - at quite modern diameters as well!



Zenith had the De Luca line of sportive chronograph in its collection for many, many years. Clad with a 40mm stainless steel case, all of them, of course, driven by the famous El Primero movement, they came with a rotating bezel (version 1 only), a very clear dial with with three starkly contrasting subdials ('Panda-style'), a tachymeter scale, so called 'Mercedes hands' (later variantions) and generous luminous dots.

A few decades ago, dials were not as complex as they are today, particuarly as far as layers and levels are concerned. But this does not mean that they were any less interesting, as the De Luca aptly demonstrates: Grainy silver printing matches the metal bezel...



... the fine circular pattern of the subdials create a noticeable contrast, not only in colour, to the lacquered dial plate...



... and finally, who on earth could not love this date window, perfectly framed by two luminous dots?



(also note the nice Mercedes hands...)

Wearing it, one has the fascinating feel of an umconpromised sports watch.



This exactly was the reason why the owner chose it over the Rolex Daytona: an unadulterated El Primero movement, 100m water resistancy without screw-down pushers, and the tachymeter scale, plus a high-quality bracelet (which even today wears nicely without cutting the hairs).





Now I just wonder what would happen if Zenith brought this piece back?



Any takers?

Cheers,
Magnus

John.

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You perfectly described watches from that era!
Really looking forward your next text
Cheers
D

Magnus,

that would be great
Tim

First edition didn't have the Mercedes hands and didn't have El Primero written on the dial

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Now I understanding what you mean with first and second edition
There are indeed 2 editions. And the first edition is much more beautiful than the second one with tachymeter
I

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Look what the TAG Heuer Autavia fetches today. Why isn't the Zenith the 50K watch instead of the Heuer

But Zenith, it is the champion of the chronometric competitions with great movements. People buy a vintage valjoux 72 powered autavia because it is more cool for them but fact is that regarding the heuer valjoux 72 movement finish it is very pedestrian and utilitarian not even comparable with a zenith 146hp or a 3019 phc.Watch blogs with so called professionnal watch specialists and hype makers are to blame for the vintage heuer hype and price raise

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So true

I've seen it over the years and it always make me stop to admire. Just like the Zenith Rainbows.
But IMO the general factor for chronograph uber popularity in either vintage or modern (outside of being branded Patek or Lange or Audemars Piguet) is to have a defined, consistent aesthetic for the dial & bezel that is clean and somewhat original and that translates well to photography. Thinking about Rolex Daytona (PN or non-PN), Heuer Autavia vintage, or Omega Speedmaster Pro; there's a general consistency in their unique cleanliness through generations. The dials and bezels for those are not overcrowded. And they photograph very well. The second general factor is the marketing story that enhances the visual appeal. The Daytona has the birth history & celebrity association stories; the Autavia has the racing history story; the Speedmaster Pro has the moon story. I think you can switch order for factors #1 and #2 for some people.
When it comes to chronographs, IMHO the movement is really not a top factor for widespread huge popularity. It is a tertiary factor. More so for WIS than the general watch buying population.
*excluding military watches, that's a different story altogether.
**I don't mention rarity/scarcity in numbers because I think it gets played around with for pricing and talking about $$$ is another can of worms. It is a factor too.

All these reach insane values for a movement which is of good quality but nothing stellar compared to the lemania 2310, longines 13z, longines 30ch, venus 170, 175 and 178, excelsior cal 40, angelus cal 21x, universal cal 28x or even zenith 146 which would be very good runs for the money against the valjoux 72. Seriously personalities, racing history and moon history shouldn't ever interfere in the price of some watches produced to tens or hundreds of thousands of examples which are not rare at all. The problem as I said above and I will repeat it again and again are the auctions houses and watch weblogs which have killed the market so that only a very few number of wealthy persons can buy them .
Here on the purists , there was thread about Hoddinkee and how people consider them www.watchprosite.com / (link of the thread in question)
On another watch forum where I am a member, Hoddinkee so called specialist Louis Westphalen got one of the hell of a flak a month ago not only by me but by 20 collectors that I know since a long time. I don't like greedy sellers and greedy web watch bloggers. Neither don't I like price gougers for whom I have absolutely very little if not zero tolerance.
Being back to the topic, it leaves more room for those who appreciate Zenith to buy their vintage timepieces at reasonable prices.
Zenith being one of the finest brands but with less popularity than Rolex or Omega or Breitling but the fact that their timepieces are rare makes them more valuable.

the watch market is overly influenced by factors outside of technical capabilities and quality.
I greatly agree with you that some watch bloggers, led by the biggest of them all Hdinkee, have a long-term deleterious effect on us true watch lovers. They are essentially all chasing $$$ and help dealers more than consumers because they are for-profit businesses who align where the money is at => their direct & indirect sponsors/advertisers.

I dream of a watch community where vintage/preowned price is proportional to the inherent work originally invested in creating a product and real enjoyment that collectors derive from ownership (i.e., not speculation or pump-and-dump). Auctions and weblog hype... not so much. When I read your thoughts, I realize that I'm not alone.
Best,
Tim

Most watches are imo better without a date  cause imo it's most of the times an ugly hole in the dial

Great shots by the way!

Best.

While you bring out the beauty of the watch spectacularly well, Magnus, and while there is little that I could find to critique, that on its own for me is not enough reason to bring it back. I feel the watch industry has for too long relied on its archives and on re-editions, as opposed to facing an equally rich and fascinating future that they could create. After all, the creators of pieces like this one did not look to the past, either and that's why we admire those pieces today. 

It's exactly what I miss in the Zenith catalog A REAL sports - diver watch This watch has imo everything to be a big hit. `

I am not sure it would fly in practice. Sure, Tudor has had a sort of renaissance with an approach like that and one could claim the same would work here - but would it? The product you or I might like could very well not fly with the larger masses, which you need to get the volumes Zenith needs for long term viability.

But then again I am not an expert on the watch industry

I don't think this will soon happen again with any brand
The AD I spoke with sell almost only the black bay, the rest of their watches does not sell that well
But even if a new edition De Luca would sell less than the black bay, it still might sell enough to give zenith an iconic watch
That is the worst when I think about zentith.... they are known for their el prime ro but they do not have an iconic watch
A submariner, a Nautilus, a Royal Oak, a reverso, a tank, a navitimer
The '1969' tries to be iconic but we hade way too many versions and I think it's only recognisable among purists.
I really do think this brand needs a GOOD sportswatch and this chronograph diver looks like a watch that could have been made 30 years ago ( it is made almost 30 years ago) and will still look good in 2050
A Daytona, a speedmaster, breguet type XX, blancpain 50fathons.....
I THINK we need a steel sportswatch with a steel bracelet
I agree it's not easy to predict if the larger masses would like and buy it..... but I do have a good feeling
That kind of watch does sell

But the question that remains for me is whether it will sell as well with Zenith on the dial as it has in the other cases with their respective brands. This is where I am unsure - what has worked for some may not work for others...

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But so many things can change in 5 years that I can't say that I'm 100% sure
But once again.... imo better to reintroduce the watch and make multiple thousands of them and not only a micro edition for us

If the multiple thousands do not sell, Zenith is dead (potentially). Even the regular CP-2, which IMHO has been one of the most true to the original re-editions, has not yet managed to move the 1000 pieces it was limited to (quite significant discounts still being around), so Zenith would do better to dip its toes into the water gently, as opposed to remaining sitting on unsold stock, with an unholy pressure to move it via price.