Comments:
of the archive will not indicate if the dial ever has been changed. It will state the way the watch left the factory.
Nice wtach though.
Best regards,
Dirk
Case size is not the largest. In fact, the chronometer rectangular cases can be seen at 50mm in length and 28mm in width. The crown looks to be original in my opinion.
Patek Circa 1917 Gondola--Do you think it is a replacment dial
I just picked up Large 1917 Gondola and the dial seems to me in very good condition. How can you tell if the dial is refinished. I am in the process of ordering the Patek Archive. Will it tell on the Archive? What should I look for?
So far it looks to me ...
that you have found a very nice rectangular PP from the 20´s. Similar pieces can be found in the PP literature.
Do you think it is a re-dial, just because of the good condition?
If you have more pictures to share, please keep them coming.
Oliver
Do you think it is a re-dial, just because of the good condition?
If you have more pictures to share, please keep them coming.
Oliver
Yes my concern is the condition
The dial is in very good condition. Almost to good. I am not an expert but the dial looks to be enamial. The patek lettering on the face also look to be have nice gloss like the rest of the watch/ I am assuming it is patek but I am concerned it is a a later replacement. I hope I am wrong.
The extract...
of the archive will not indicate if the dial ever has been changed. It will state the way the watch left the factory.
Nice wtach though.
Best regards,
Dirk
Redial
Condition aside, I strongly suspect that this is a redial. The font appears inconsistent with other examples I've seen from this era and the tracks on the dial periphery are not symmetrically spaced (esp. top right corner). Details unlikely to be overlooked by Patek standards.
My opinion only and of course I may be mistaken. Have you had the watch opened? Aside from examining the mechanism there may be other indications of a redial on closer direct examination.
Dial Spacing and more pictures
I noticed the same thing on the spacing but every watch from this era I could find online spaced the numbers the same way. The 4 offset from the 8 and also the 2 offset from the 10. Here are a more internal shots of the movement and case. i also have a picture of the Back of the dial. Let me know if that helps.
The spacing never will be linear
So that aspect looks ok. I did a quick search and found at least one other example from the same period with Geneva on the dial. This was auctioned by a big auction house.
Br,
Dirk
The case size is 26 mm x 43 MM. Is that the largest size made or do the come bigger
The case is 26 mm x 43 mm. Is that the biggest case or can the be larger? Here is a picture of the case. I belief the case looks right but the dial is my concern. It the crown a replacement?
case size and crown
Case size is not the largest. In fact, the chronometer rectangular cases can be seen at 50mm in length and 28mm in width. The crown looks to be original in my opinion.
The crown is to die for as are the hands...
congratulations on a marvellous piece. I only wish they (-> the industry!) would make such a movement again in a basic watch. But i guess that with today's watchmaker wages this is prohibitory.
Cheers,
Magnus
Hi , Could we see some more detailed pics of the dial
Difficult to comment from the small pics.
I have a rule of thumb, first impressions are often right.
If it looks too clean, neat and new, it often is.
Obviously this can be wrong but most times it works
Julian
Not original....
I'm sorry....but for me the clincher is the script....PATEK PHILIPPE & Co
GENEVA SWITZERLAND
The letters are poorly done and IMO....definitely not the quality that PP would ever allow from their factory....and if you compare the quality to that of the picture submitted by happyg......you can see the obvious differences...as well as the fact that the two lines of script are 'centred'..but do no align in his example whereas they do in your dial?
That last picture of a similar watch is a refinished dial(here is the shop info)
It is hard to tell. I did more research on the las picture and found it was completly refinished. Who knows. I do know it was owned by a 1915 movie director and writer(name on the back). It was then purchased from a high end shop in newport 8 years ago by the owner my watch guy purchased it from. Pretty cool history for an artdeco watch that never found it way out of calfornia during the heihht of the 1920s. I will keep trying go gind a picture of a similar dial. Your right it might be redone. The only reason ii hold out hope that it might be orginal is the lettering and boarder have a glaze(like it was cooked glaze). Most refinish dials are just painted over the orginal. Just hoping
TITLE: Patek Philippe Yellow Gold Curved Hinged Rectangular Wristwatch
PRICE: Price Upon Request
CREATOR: Patek Philippe COUNTRY: Switzerland PERIOD: circa 1920s
MATERIALS: 18k Yellow Gold / Manual-Wind Movement METAL: 18K Gold CONDITION: Recently cleaned and overhauled, beautifully refinished dial. New strap, case back has previous owners name engraved on it
WIDTH: 23 X 40 M.M.
DEALER LOCATION: Chicago, IL
DIAL AND "SWISS" ON A CIRCA 1917 WATCH
In my opinion the dial looks to be refinished. It is not generally seen that a dial made for a watch circa 1917 would have "Swiss" printed at the 6 position. I believe that this was reserved for watches made after the 1950's. At the very least the dial is refinished for this reason as well as a few others. The dial is too clean without any signs of patina, wear, oxidation or watchmakers careless scratches. The cases on these early hinged watches were not well sealed and it is never seen that a watch even in "Unused" condition would not show obvious evidence of age.
As for a replacement dial, it is possible but likely to be simply a refinished stock original plate. If it were a replacement dial (and it could be) it was still refinished in my opinion for the reasons listed above.
I hope that this helps. Not sure that this is 100 percent accurate just an opinion.
Rolex Doc's Analysis
Rolex Doc has written a thorough analysis that IMHO seems to hit the mark. I would only add one other possibility, however unlikely, namely that even if "Swiss" might not have been printed on an original 1917dial, if the replacement dial was made many years later, perhaps "Swiss" might have been factory added.
It is not unusual for replacement dials for 1950s watches to have "QSwissQ" written at the bottom, even if the original dial would have had nothing or "Swiss".
patekova