Patek Philippe

So distinct!  So Beautiful!  Its amazing to me how the Patek 5070 takes on a new role, image and life in a different metal.  I find it very hard to say that these two watches are the "same".......Are these watches timeless in their design, look, feel?  Or are they just fads of the 2000's?  Time will tell, but your thoughts in the present are most welcome! 

Timeless Classic if they are 40mm or lesser. Currently, they are too big with very easily dinged and scratchable bezels.
They are very beautiful especially the platinum and the RG version but just too big and too much hype.
I use to have one but very quickly fall out of love and got myself a 5970 which I think is a lot more timeless and suave.
Jmho.
Cheers,
CL

You never know which pieces will be timeless classics, but I do believe the 5070 will be in that group. 

The 5070 was designed in pre-2000 before the big watch trend, and, though it is 42 mm, its design including dial and bezel bring an overall feel of substance plus elegance, more than an overall feel of a large watch like so many other more recent designs.  It is this simple elegance in combination with substantial case (and classic manual chrono movement) that will make this watch a classic. 

Frankly, the 5070 is the only precious metal watch I really want to own larger than 40mm, and perhaps this also says a lot.

I do agree that the 5970 will be one of the classics, with a much different feel than the more "simple" 5070.  Each has their own allure whether in the mood for a more or less complicated piece.

And nice PT and RG combo!

won't we all still love it if it is a 40mm ;-)
The only thing with 5070 is it is forever overshine by Datograph.
As for the 5970, only one watch comes near but not yet, the VC platinum dial Malt Perpetual Chronograph.
But then again, it's really purely my preference.
I LOVE the dial of 5070 and 5970.....I also love the case of 5970 but really not that fond of the step , wide bezel case of 5070.
if the 5070's dial (especially the RG dial) is put in the case of 5970, it will be my dream Chronograph
Cheers,
CL

the 5070--all of them, will be giant, towering collector's pieces. I love the platinum version, yet I also see CL's point. The watch perhaps is a bit 'wrong' in its dimensions, and yes, the movement is too small for the case, technically, and even perhaps, aesthetically... but some things are greater than the sum of their parts, some things defy the rules that seem to apply to other things. I once had a long email correspondence with a fellow collector who we all know and who loves the Independents. He feels that Dufour, essentially, is overrated---(I disagree) and I told him, in some ways, it doesn't really matter what any individual 'thinks' about Dufour anymore, because Dufour has attained a Name like that of Patek or Ferrari or you name it. There are only a VERY few number of NAMES that connote THE BEST, without virtually any argument. Patek is one, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter. IT just IS. Same with the 5070's. You can criticize them. But bullets bounce off their chests. They are Patek Chronographs. Even the 'sinking' 5980 will rise again, pulled up by the life raft of the 5070's. Long way of saying, yeah, uh..... I think you can easily count on the 5070's being eternal classic and enduring pieces. Dare I say, 'duh'.

and I previously came to the same conclusion that the 5070 would be overshadowed by the Datograph.  Then I saw the 5070P, and I have to say this watch is the chrono king.

The Datograph is an outstanding piece.  Interestingly it does not fit my wrist as well as the 5070, even though it is only 38 or 39mm and I prefer watches of this size. That is not to say the dimensions don't perhaps  look even better on my wrist, but for whatever reason the Dato is more top heavy and less conforming for me than the 5070P.  OK, mIght also have something to do with deployant vs tang.....

And while I like the large date function, I have to say the simplicity of the pure chrono, pure Arabics (vs combo of romans and batons), and single color dial (vs the "panda" look of the Dato) favor the aesthetic of the 5070.  (Notice I have not argued too much about movements.)

I will also add that the thick stepped bezel of the 5070 works especially well with the white metal and dark blue dial.  By comparison I find the bezel of the Dato lacking in presence.  I wonder what the diffference is in dial size of these watches,maybe not much.

Well, would be interesting to see a 40mm 5070 and 40mm Dato, but then again life could get a bit boring........  And not bad having the 5970 ias the pick n that category.

I don't like the datograph (anymore)

the watch is way to thick. Such a thick watch should have a 44mm diameter.

Concerning the 5070's size ... 42 mm is NOT tto big. 47 and 60 mm could be a fad bet 40-42 is a normal size.

Watches always grew in size. 33 mm in the 1930's, 36 in the 1950-1960's and 38 till 40 in the 1980-1990's. Today 40 and 42 are normal size. Besides the 5070 does not look that big. Some time ago I compared one with a journe CS which was 40 mm. Believe me, those 2 watches looked exactly the same (in size ofcourse)

the 5070 is just a teeny bit off hence I gave up to get the 5070P sometime ago when the usual suspect offered it to me with zero regrets. @ 40mm however, it would be my dream chronograph as well

I succumbed to the hype of the 5070 and owned a 5070P.  Once I put it on my wrist, however, I was VERY disappointed.  The case proportions were just so bizarre.  An extremely wide case with such a thin profile made it seem like I was wearing a big plate on my wrist!  And my friends agreed.  This was odd as I have a very large wrist.  Lesson learned - I will NEVER buy a watch again without having tried it on.  IMHO the 5070 is overhyped...and I realized this when I tried to sell mine.  It took me a very long time as most of my collector friends said they felt the same way about the case proportions.  I guess the hype was from many of the same people over and over - but only when I tried to sell did I realize how many people did NOT like this watch.  Unfortunately, they were silent on the fora.  But that is how bias works - only the ones who love this watch will chime in about it.

I have to agree with CL - when the dust settles, the 5970 will be the king of classicism.

i agree with your very objective observation. i have a 5070 and hardly use it because it is too big and flat. i can not wear it with a suit as it bulges aggressively through my shirt cuff as much as i try to conceal it under, as a wrist watch should preferably be. it has been rather over rated perhaps because it is the 'entry-price' lemania pp chronograph. 42mm is far too wide in my humble opinion. has pp ever made a watch any bigger? i must confess i am into 33.2 or 36mm pps

but I am also a bit confused.  The 5070P you were selling was supposed to be double sealed, so I am not clear how you spent any time with it on your wrist.  And you also had the opportunity for several deals to sell the watch as I understand, including one with me that we did not complete.  Also at the time your were selling your watch I know of gray market dealers who were paying retail or above at a moment's notice to purchase this piece.

I greatly respect your comments, but they don't make sense in regard to my understanding of your experience with your 5070P.

For what is worth to those who are concerned about the 5070 being too big, the dark blue dial of the PT makes this watch appear smaller on the wrist IMHO than the other versions.

The pt 5070 will look smaller becos of the darker dial.
I really do adore the 5070 dial and its aethetic , it is one of those moment that I wish I have the wrist size of Bruno
Most watch will look too big on my wrist so I'm sure the 5070 will look perfectly great on most of you.
Cheers,
CL

One of which I strapped on - and disliked immediately.  The other 5070P was sealed, and I sold it eventually, albeit with a LOT of difficulty.  As for dealers paying above retail - you are right, they were around when the watch came out, but were nowhere near retail by the time I was selling.  Still, I think this will turn around one day.  The watch has a place at the top of the 5070 heap (even though I preferred the dial of the 5070G).  Someone made a good point that it is the entry point to the Lemania chronos - and I think that makes it more accessible than the 5970.  So it will always have that appeal.  To each his (or her) own I guess...

About a zillion collectors are looking for one and can't get it.   Even a lot of AD don't get/got 1

And you had 2 of those ...

Please take no offense. In the last 3 years, I have been offered more than 5 times by different AD, both WG and RG, no offer of 5070P though
5970 too, about 3 times.....it's not as difficult as one claims.
5070 is a really beautiful watch but I just don't have the wrist to wear it.
Maybe Skyline really have 2 5070s as I know of other collectors having 2-3 of such watches, it's not surprising.
Even one of our member have 2 PP3939, that's impressive
Btw, your pictures of your 5070R is amazingly beautiful
Enjoy.
Cheers,
CL

not the least of which is profit motive.  It does raise my eyebrows to read a post suggesting the desirability of the 5070P is questioned since it was hard to sell, when in fact it would have sold many times over if not for the desire to make a certain profit (and I was one party in negotiations).

To consider further, no doubt in this economy it is hard to re-sell any watch at retail nearly $90K (especially one still in production), but if I had to sell I would feel fortunate starting with a 5070P.

Is the watch worth $90K?  Maybe that's a topic for another discussion, but I would guess if the watch indeed becomes a "classic" that price will one day look pretty cheap.

All of the 5070 variants have been manufactured in very small quantities, the levels of which which will no doubt keep us all guessing and talking about for years on fora like this one.  The design is simple, and clean, and one could easily mistake this watch for a 1940's Patek if the size were a little smaller.  I for one love them and am typing this whilst wearing my 5070P.  I accept the criticism about the wide bezel being easily scratch prone, and also that the movement to case size ratio is a big large but for me the design and execution just "works".  Just as the original 3.8 E-Type Jaguar (possibly the most beautiful car ever) had some issues such as a recalcitrant gearbox, and it rusted from new...but it "worked".

I'm not usually a big fan of diamond encrusted watches for men, but my one big regret is walking past the Patek boutique in London and seeing a 5071P in the window...and not buying it.

And great pictures by the way!

Tim

... for those that have a big wrist. I still find it a bit small, compare to other 42mm watches, and this is due to the fact that its quite thin, but i think the proportion is perfect.
I think we have to be fair, PP catalogue is mainly build of watches that varies from very small to 40mm. They have to come up with something, at least 1 model that is not BIG, but jst bigger then their other models. I personally still find it a notch too small on my wrist. A, Lange came with the Double split that is not only a bit bigger ( 43mm) but much more thicker. The watch has an amazing presence on the wrist. It would be THE nicest chrono IMO if it had the date of the datograph.
Anyway, i think its definetly a timeless watch. Some might see it as a fantasy strike from Patek, trying to wave the trend of bigger watches, but i don't think so, simply becuz the purity of the design, the perfect finishing, the superb proportion makes it almost a perfect beauty.
Btw, thank you for the nice pics. The RG and the platinum are my 2 favourites, and by far

K.

I wear 40-44MM watches primarily and the 5070 s just about right. My previous comments about the long strap were rectified by the short strap. The dilemma with the P is it's so heavy that the strap has to be right or it falls to one side if worn loose. Too bad Journe was the only guy to develop that adjustable deployant,

Comfort is key, I was wearing a 3970P the other day & it felt awesome & surprisingly did not look that small. GO FIGURE!!

... i guess we can apply it the proportions )
i fully agree with u about your point on the comfort. Its very important and we tend to hide behind the fact that we'll get used to it with time... until we wear a watch that feels really comfortable, then we realize that when a watch bothers us on the wrist, it will always be annoying... I am not talking about the 5070 here

K.

it is a Patek Icon

PERIOD

I think it's too big and vastly prefer other variants of this watch, such as the Vacheron Constantin Les Historiques Chrono or even Breguet's chrono version

with 13ZN movements which IMHO are truely timeless classic.

that you don't think have a good chance to become "timeless classics?"

I just wanted to say that he is 'right' about how the seller's market rarely resembles the forums' enthusiasm or hype about any given watch. I know this from personal experience. It is truly like a freak disconnect, and this includes both lemania chrono and chrono-perps for me. I'm not contradicting my belief that the 5070P will be a monster collectible. Just saying that it is true (in my experience) that even the biggest Pateks are met with a relatively cold audience when they go up on the selling block. Repeat, relatively. Relative to the forum goo goo ga ga, of which I too take joyful part.

I was merely conveying my personal experience with this watch.  Mostel - very well said!

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