Comments:
to wind or not to wind a perpetual when not in use
UntiI I bought my 3940 in November, I'd never owned a watch that is difficult to reset after it winds down. Now that I've had my 3940 for a couple of months, it's time to give some wrist time to my other watches. I don't have a watch winder and don't intend to buy one. My question to this group is whether I should just wind the 3940 manually every day to keep it in sync with the calendar or whether I should instead let it wind down and go through the resetting process each time the 3940 comes back up on rotation. It's no hassle for me to wind it each night; the question is simply whether this is bad for the movement and whether I should just get used to resetting the watch using the correction buttons every few months (something I haven't actually tried doing yet). Curious to know what others do. Thanks!
I put my automatic perpetual watches on a Swiss Kubik winder - easy when you want to wear them [nt]
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I like to set it manually, it’s the fun part...Plus I don’t like to put extra wear on the movement by using the winder.I reserve that for my wrist. [nt]
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Perpetual
Honest, i do not own a perpetual.
I use a watch winder.
But i wil look for a perpetual, when i wish to buy an infinity date watch.
I wil put a perpetual on a watch winder, if i had one.
No problem to reset.
I use a watch winder.
But i wil look for a perpetual, when i wish to buy an infinity date watch.
I wil put a perpetual on a watch winder, if i had one.
No problem to reset.
I personally would recommend to
let it stop and adjust it again when you want to use it.
Winding it every day or putting it on an automatic winder is like wearing your watch steadily. And IMHO in this case you will need a service sooner.
Just my 2c.
Best
Thomas
P.S.: I have asked different watchmakers over the time if it is „bad“ for automatic movements to wind them manually. The answer was always: „No! Don’t stress yourself!“ 😊
Winding it every day or putting it on an automatic winder is like wearing your watch steadily. And IMHO in this case you will need a service sooner.
Just my 2c.
Best
Thomas
P.S.: I have asked different watchmakers over the time if it is „bad“ for automatic movements to wind them manually. The answer was always: „No! Don’t stress yourself!“ 😊
That’s The Whole Point Of A Perpetual Calendar!
The whole point of spending the large amount extra for the Perpetual Calendar complication is that you never have to correct it, even for Leap Years like this year.
But you have to always have the watch running or else you will have to make corrections. So why spend the huge premium on a Perpetual Calendar if you are going to be making corrections?
Watch winders are inexpensive and can be set to only run enough to keep your watch wound and can be battery powered so that with high-quality batteries and how little power it uses, it will last a number of years before it runs out and you have the ability to put it anywhere, including a safe deposit box and it will keep the watch running.
Watches are designed to run continuously with servicing as little as once per decade and still maintain the accuracy of it being new (that’s Roger Smith’s co-axial escapement service recommendation), most will be less, but it’s good for getting the watch professionally polished and most brands update parts known to have had issues or like Journe, if they have improved a part since you bought it, no matter what, they will update that part.
It’s okay to let them run continuously, centuries of engineering by Breguet and Daniels amongst many hundreds of others spent their lives improving the ability for a watch to run longer with less wear. The English invented jewels for all friction points (brought by Breguet to the Continent for usage beyond very limited use in the escapement. Abraham-Louis Breguet was the one who started using jewels for all friction surfaces in the late 1790s on the European continent which made it standard practice in the industry in the years to come over 1800s...his problem was even with jewels, which significantly helped, he lacked quality oils but we don’t have that issue). They have spent so much energy into making watches wear extremely, extremely slowly and with proper servicing to clean and relubricate per your manufacturer’s recommendation, it will last thousands of years. I have 225 year-old watches that even with no jewels outside of the escapement, still are amazingly accurate for simple pivots in a hole drilled into brass and all of these years later, all things considered, it’s amazing how accurate that primitive technology still is. I have an 1808 pocket chronometre that could be made to perform as well as your average modern, Swiss mechanical watch today.
So don’t worry that by it running continuously its entire life that you or are hurting the watch or wearing it out too soon. Even with our modern lubricants, except for the time-keeping accuracy degrading, you technically don’t even need to service the watch 25 years or more and you won’t significantly wear the pinions in the jewel bearings. But that’s just dumb. You want a clean, serviced watch that has been re-adjusted so that it keeps as good of time or better than a quartz watch (any watch of this quality that has a Perpetual Calendar will, excepting for slight damage from knocking it into a wall really hard while wearing it or dropping it...enough to not break anything, but possibly do a tiny bit of damage inside somewhere...will keep as good of time accuracy-wise as quartz watches. Maybe there was a big difference in the ‘70s compared with the average mechanical ‘70s watch, but a well maintained and re-adjusted high-end watch from a high-quality brand today will perform as well or better than quartz even running continuously for its entire life).
I have yet to get a Perpetual Calendar for my collection (I personally feel like the Minute-Repeater is the highest complication not counting the Grand and Petite Sonnerie which is different because it usually uses its own barrel for independent power; the Perpetual Calendar is second...sorry, but a Tourbillon is NOT a complication.
Don’t have a Perpetual Calendar and waste the incredible engineering that goes into never having to adjust your calendar because you let it stop. It needs to run continuously its entire life and then you get the benefits of the complexity of a bunch of mechanical parts that can keep track of not only how many days are in a month (an Annual Calendar), but will correct every 4 years for Leap Year (a Perpetual Calendar). If you want it to stop, just get a normal calendar (I highly recommend Breguet’s simple calendar watches because you can quickly set them even if you are just passed the date the watch stopped and you have to only go forward to get though all of the dates to get back to the correct date).
But you have to always have the watch running or else you will have to make corrections. So why spend the huge premium on a Perpetual Calendar if you are going to be making corrections?
Watch winders are inexpensive and can be set to only run enough to keep your watch wound and can be battery powered so that with high-quality batteries and how little power it uses, it will last a number of years before it runs out and you have the ability to put it anywhere, including a safe deposit box and it will keep the watch running.
Watches are designed to run continuously with servicing as little as once per decade and still maintain the accuracy of it being new (that’s Roger Smith’s co-axial escapement service recommendation), most will be less, but it’s good for getting the watch professionally polished and most brands update parts known to have had issues or like Journe, if they have improved a part since you bought it, no matter what, they will update that part.
It’s okay to let them run continuously, centuries of engineering by Breguet and Daniels amongst many hundreds of others spent their lives improving the ability for a watch to run longer with less wear. The English invented jewels for all friction points (brought by Breguet to the Continent for usage beyond very limited use in the escapement. Abraham-Louis Breguet was the one who started using jewels for all friction surfaces in the late 1790s on the European continent which made it standard practice in the industry in the years to come over 1800s...his problem was even with jewels, which significantly helped, he lacked quality oils but we don’t have that issue). They have spent so much energy into making watches wear extremely, extremely slowly and with proper servicing to clean and relubricate per your manufacturer’s recommendation, it will last thousands of years. I have 225 year-old watches that even with no jewels outside of the escapement, still are amazingly accurate for simple pivots in a hole drilled into brass and all of these years later, all things considered, it’s amazing how accurate that primitive technology still is. I have an 1808 pocket chronometre that could be made to perform as well as your average modern, Swiss mechanical watch today.
So don’t worry that by it running continuously its entire life that you or are hurting the watch or wearing it out too soon. Even with our modern lubricants, except for the time-keeping accuracy degrading, you technically don’t even need to service the watch 25 years or more and you won’t significantly wear the pinions in the jewel bearings. But that’s just dumb. You want a clean, serviced watch that has been re-adjusted so that it keeps as good of time or better than a quartz watch (any watch of this quality that has a Perpetual Calendar will, excepting for slight damage from knocking it into a wall really hard while wearing it or dropping it...enough to not break anything, but possibly do a tiny bit of damage inside somewhere...will keep as good of time accuracy-wise as quartz watches. Maybe there was a big difference in the ‘70s compared with the average mechanical ‘70s watch, but a well maintained and re-adjusted high-end watch from a high-quality brand today will perform as well or better than quartz even running continuously for its entire life).
I have yet to get a Perpetual Calendar for my collection (I personally feel like the Minute-Repeater is the highest complication not counting the Grand and Petite Sonnerie which is different because it usually uses its own barrel for independent power; the Perpetual Calendar is second...sorry, but a Tourbillon is NOT a complication.
Don’t have a Perpetual Calendar and waste the incredible engineering that goes into never having to adjust your calendar because you let it stop. It needs to run continuously its entire life and then you get the benefits of the complexity of a bunch of mechanical parts that can keep track of not only how many days are in a month (an Annual Calendar), but will correct every 4 years for Leap Year (a Perpetual Calendar). If you want it to stop, just get a normal calendar (I highly recommend Breguet’s simple calendar watches because you can quickly set them even if you are just passed the date the watch stopped and you have to only go forward to get though all of the dates to get back to the correct date).
I fully agree.
And it is more wear to a watch setting it (strange enough) than letting it run. And watches are actually constructed to run continuously. “Wear” to a watch movement is mostly related to oil - at least more than parts.
For me a large part of our passion
is the actual winding of the watches. I wind my watches daily unless I am away on holiday. My perpetual calendar is on a winder and although I know a number of purists who do not use winders, I personally am partial to winders, particularly the Planet by Bernard Favre because it is a spectacle in its own right with its three dimensional winding system. But ok, if you prefer not to have a winder, do wind the watch and enjoy the pleasure of every turn of the crown.
Superb post.
I have a Perpetual Chronograph 5270R. I wind it everyday. It keeps excellent time and I am not concerned about wear. When I travel I don’t usually take this piece so I let it run down. Then when I return I set it with a bamboo skewer (not the gold pusher)
I spoke with a watchmaker familiar with Patek setting mechanics and the buttons on the case side. He told me that each setting button has been tested 2000 plus times to insure durability. So I don’t fret it I need to set the watch from time to time. Just make sure to do it in the correct order and in the AM.
I spoke with a watchmaker familiar with Patek setting mechanics and the buttons on the case side. He told me that each setting button has been tested 2000 plus times to insure durability. So I don’t fret it I need to set the watch from time to time. Just make sure to do it in the correct order and in the AM.
I agree with Sham.
I enjoy setting and winding my watch. It’s part of my connection with the watch. It gives me great pleasure to do this. This is one of the reasons I purchased a manual wind watch.
Sham, the Planet by Favre is a spectacle indeed.
Beautiful and functional. Even if you only stored your Patek on a Planet (without the winder spinning) it would be a magical way to display all sides of your timepiece. Indulgent, yes, but beautiful. Any chance you could share a photo?
Hi Robert
I am currently in Geneva and will share a photo of the planet with you when I return to Malaysia in 2 weeks time. I am actually planning to get a set of 3 planets as I have noticed that all my Pateks are automatic watches and to have them all working in a row would be quite something! 
Thank you for your post.
Thank you for your post.
I have had my IWC Perpetual on a winder for 17 years
I wear it off and on; the rest of the time its on the Orbita winder with a couple other watches.
It's too much hassle to mess with setting the day, date, month, year and especially with a screw-down crown.
I fully agree that it's made to do this happily -- it's running fine and I have no plan to service it.
Cazalea
Thanks everyone! Now, a 3940-specific question ...
Let’s say I wind the watch every day rather than putting it on a winder when not in use. Ordinarily I would wind a watch about 40 turns and not worry about overwinding it. But the manual for this watch, with its 240Q movement, warns that it should be wound only 10 turns before being put on the wrist for automatic winding. I doubt that 10 turns per day is sufficient to keep this watch running if not worn. Does anyone with experience with this particular movement have views on the overwinding risk?
40 is too much considering its an auto with micro rotor.
Just follow the manual and wear it 2 hours a day on your wrist. It can last for 24 28 hours at rest. 2 hours a day and it will keep on running. My experience and opinion.
Geross 😊
Geross 😊
There is no clutch in this movement allowing free separate manual wind.
Self-winding watches which can also be manually wound fully each day will say so. If not, the manufacturer says just a few winds as PP does.
Something will break if you fully wind each day.
Something will break if you fully wind each day.
Don’t think so
You can wind the 3940 forever without causing (visible) damage. At least my two 3940 have no problem with manual winding on a daily basis. Wear might be slightly higher in the long run, though.
Do not manually wind the watch
it was designed to be wound through the rotor. PP recommends just up to 10 winds to get it started if it runs down. The watch winder is the way to go. The PC module is very thin and the thinly applied oils can dry out so it is best to keep it moving. It will not hurt any watch to run all the time. They are designed to do that. Re-setting the watch with the correctors is actually hard on the movement and the correctors themselves will wear out if done regularly and need new springs. Plus you have the risk of scratching the case. The big plus of these watches is you put them on a winder so you can wear and enjoy or forget totally when not in use.
This makes sense.
What do you recommend for manual wind Perpetual Chronographs?
I try to wind every day but I do end up setting it multiple times after travel.
I try to wind every day but I do end up setting it multiple times after travel.
Much to think on here ...
Turns out I have the OEM winding box that the 3940 came with. I put the watch in the box when I left home for a few days but was disappointed to discover the watch had stopped the day after I left. I assumed something was wrong with the box, but I now wonder whether something is wrong with me. I left the watch box right-side up, meaning that the watch itself was facing up, moving side to side. I now realize I probably should have placed the box on its side to give the rotor a chance to move. What an embarrassing newbie mistake!