patrick_y
[PuristSPro Moderator]
33553
You give too much credit to the average owner and to first-hand experience...
How do you qualify first-hand experience? Average owners can't determine accuracy of a watch just by gut feeling alone and not even by comparing to a reference time sporadically. I thought my new COSC rated watch was very accurate. Then I started to think it wasn't accurate. Then I started keeping logs of it on a spreadsheet. Some days the watch was accurate, some days the watch wasn't and gained as much as 19 seconds since the last measurement. I don't think an "average" owner can make an accuracy determination without keeping a spreadsheet - and I doubt that hardly any of them do.
| Date | Time | Watch | Fast/Slow | Difference | On Winder | Crown Pos. | Comments |
| 3-Oct-24 | 9:30AM | Chopard | 0 | 0 | No | Up | Watch Stopped, Reset Time to +0/sec |
| 3-Oct-24 | 11:06AM | Chopard | 0 | 0 | 900CW/900CCW | Scatola Rotor 1 | Watch put on winder for 48 hours; watch is fully wound |
| 5-Oct-24 | 11:13AM | Chopard | 6 | 6 | 900CW/900CCW | Scatola Rotor 1 | Watch gained about 3 seconds a day |
| 5-Oct-24 | 11:15AM | Chopard | 6 | 0 | No | Crown Down | Watch being put crown down to see if watch runs fast crown down |
| 5-Oct-24 | 5:00PM | Chopard | 5 | -1 | No | Wrist | |
| 5-Oct-24 | 10:53PM | Chopard | 6 | 1 | 900CW/900CCW | Scatola Rotor 1 | |
| 6-Oct-24 | 8:21AM | Chopard | 7 | 1 | 900CW/900CCW | ||
| 7-Oct-24 | 1:22PM | Chopard | 12 | 5 | No | Wrist | Watch gained a lot in short time. Wearing Chopard watch on wrist. |
| 7-Oct-24 | 7:28PM | Chopard | 12 | 0 | 1140 CW | Scatola SL Winder | |
| 8-Oct-24 | 9:45AM | Choaprd | 14 | 2 | No | Crown Up | Watch was in winder about 14 hours and now resting on nightstand crown up. |
| 9-Oct-24 | 8:13AM | Chopard | 20 | 6 | No | Wrist | After resting 22 hours crown up, watch has gained another 6 seconds. Wearing watch today. |
| 9-Oct-24 | 9:09PM | Chopard | Crown Up | Wore watch for 13 hours today. Leaving watch crown up. | |||
| 10-Oct-24 | 1:38PM | Chopard | 22 | 2 | 1140CW | Scatola SL Winder | Put watch on winder. Watch has gained 2 seconds |
| 10-Oct-24 | 8:05PM | Chopard | 28 | 6 | 1140CW | Scatola SL Winder | Watch has gained another 2 seconds. Watch is still on the winder. |
| 11-Oct-24 | 9:54AM | Chopard | 33 | 5 | No | Wrist | Watch continues to gain a lot of time in a short period. In 49 hours it gained 13 seconds! |
| 11-Oct-24 | 9:45PM | Choaprd | 36 | 3 | No | Crown Down | Wore the watch almost 12 hours today. Resized bracelet. Putting watch crown down. |
| 12-Oct-24 | 10:14PM | Chopard | 45 | 9 | No | Crown Up | Was on the wrist today from 11AM till 10:14PM. |
| 13-Oct-24 | 7:24PM | Chopard | 64 | 19 | No | Crown Up | Was on the wrist today from 11AM till 7:24PM. |
| 14-Oct-24 | 9:05AM | Chopard | 75 | 11 | No | Wrist | This watch is gaining time rapidly! Tested for magnetism with compass. No indication of magnetism. |
| 14-Oct-24 | 5:49PM | Chopard | 87 | 12 | No | Crown Up | This watch is gaining tremendous time. |
| 15-Oct-24 | 8:26AM | Chopard | No | Crown Up | Watch Stopped, indicating 7:47AM, Reset Time to +0/sec | ||
| 15-Oct-24 | 9:06AM | Chopard | 0 | 0 | No | Scatola Rotor 1 | Watch reset to +0 seconds. |
| 15-Oct-24 | 5:11PM | Choaprd | 0 | 0 | 900CW/900CCW | Scatola Rotor 1 | Watch on winder hasn't gained nor lost any time at all. |
| 16-Oct-24 | 9:20AM | Chopard | No | Wrist | Wore watch. | ||
| 16-Oct-24 | 7:35PM | Chopard | 1 | 1 | 900CW/900CCW | Wore watch for 10 hours today. Putting onto winder. Strange that it's running perfectly normally. | |
| 19-Oct-24 | 11:14AM | Chopard | 0 | -1 | No | Was in the winder for two days. | |
| 20-Oct-24 | 11:35AM | Chopard | 5 | 5 | No | Wrist | Wearing watch today. Watch in various positions. |
| 20-Oct-24 | 10:07PM | Chopard | 7 | 2 | No | Crown Up | Wore watch today for 11 hours. Gained 2 seconds. Placing crown up. |
| 21-Oct-24 | 12:32PM | Chopard | 15 | 8 | No | Wrist | Watch has gained another 8 seconds in crown up position. |
NWA - The bracelet…
IWC have done a great job with this. Much more comfortable and slimmer than the AP RO. ...
Well the watch case is 1.5mm thicker than my 15300 RO
But I’m not sure of the bracelet thickness comparison, but my RO has a thin bracelet from my perspective. If the IWC’s is thinner it would have a thicker case with thin(ner) bracelet.
Arguably could be Gentas best work
The bracelet from this shares the same DNA as the Patek Nautilus and the Bezel the same as the AP Royal Oak.
It's a nice watch! The titanium variant with the polished edges is still my favorite version.
I'm waiting for IWC to put in a nicer movement inside the watch. The very generic movement inside uses an Etachron regulation system, like you'd see in an ETA 2824 or Sellita 300-series. Can't wait for a more interesting movement to be installed.
You're right! The ceramic version has a different movement! Good catch!
I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. I'm waiting for the titanium version to get a better movement! But goodness, that polished and shiny titanium version is awfully appealing to my eyes.
I looked into this a bit, since the topic came up before and I got curious… ☺️
The 82110 (implemented in Fatboyys ceramic Ingenieur) has IWC’s updated Pellaton winding system with ceramic parts – more durable, more refined, and nicely finished (Côtes de Genève, perlage, etc.). You’ll find it in higher-end models like the Portugieser...
The published stats on the 32111 are great! 120 hours power reserve is fantastic! But there are other things that your good analysis didn't consider.
I applaud your efforts! I think you did some thorough research, you probably read all the stats given, but you forgot to ask some questions for the stats that weren't published... There are a lot of ways to get great stats on a movement, especially a supe...
Dear Patrick, thank you so much for your detailed and enlightening response!
I truly appreciate the depth of knowledge and experience you bring to the discussion. Your point about the 120-hour power reserve being more about „marketing language“ was particularly insightful. It really highlights how important it is to look beyond th...
Thank you for your kind words!
I can say with relative certainty that your Blancpain (extremely beautiful rose gold Blancpain) with its 120 hours power reserve is definitely not cheating in any ways! With three barrels, a 120 hour power reserve can be easily achieved without barrel spr...
About the accuracy of the 32111...
It just happens that my Ingenieur (32111) is noticeably more accurate than my BP 43 (82100) easily beating COSC specs. In fact, of all the IWC's I've owned since I started collecting, none comes close to the Ingy's accuracy. Just sayin'... 😉 ...
Another interesting topic that consumers don't think about...
Let's say you get a new watch; it has a COSC rating, or a METAS rating, or some other accuracy rating. This usually means the watch or the movement went to a laboratory for a thorough accuracy test. But after the watch is out of warranty, the rating is th...
Good to know India Whiskey Charlie! Thanks for sharing! Back to the drawing board for me!
Seems likely those movement designers at Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Chopard, Breguet, and Vacheron Constantin all need to take a page from this movement! There's something to be learned here! Your Ingenious is quite new. How old is your Big Pilot 43...
Ingenieur is July 24 and the BP 43 is October 23...
Both have performed the same since new. The Ingy was on my wrist for five days a few weeks ago and didn't miss a beat. Both have an 8-year warranty.
Thank you, Patrick – I truly appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced perspective!
Your analysis adds a lot of technical depth to the discussion, especially regarding the trade-offs in achieving long power reserves in relatively simple calibers. You’re absolutely right: what’s not published often tells as much of the story as what is. M...
I really like that Blancpain!
What isn't said often speaks more volume than what is said. Although I'm admittedly stumped in the case of this IWC caliber. If it's not accuracy, what else could it be?
A lot of suppositions and conjecture….
From what I’ve seen, owners are quite happy with the movement…. So, I think a lot of what you’ve written is simply conjecture and opinion without fact: “ Which means architecturally it's probably a single normal sized barrel. I'm guessing the sacrifice is...
Your argument doesn't seem to hold water very well.
So... An owner's opinion is not conjecture too? Since when are owners experts? An owner's opinion is still just one person's opinion in one period of time and may also be a biased opinion too. Seems like you have a double standard.
There’s a difference between….
first hand experience (which is not conjecture) and “probably / guessing” something (to use your words)…. Not a double standard, IMHO.
You give too much credit to the average owner and to first-hand experience...
How do you qualify first-hand experience? Average owners can't determine accuracy of a watch just by gut feeling alone and not even by comparing to a reference time sporadically. I thought my new COSC rated watch was very accurate. Then I started to think...
So, you're saying that my wearing the watch on my wrist for five consecutive days and witnessing its accuracy is an opinion?
The only opinion is yours when you continually and incessantly bash this movement without first hand experience. You are basing your "opinion" on an assumption that a movement is inferior which I am sure it is as compared to many others (IWC or otherwise)...
Not limited to just IWC
If you google you'll find damaged ceramic cases from many brands Source: sasha320 pistonheads Titanium seems sensible until a better alternative is available ...
Wonderful acquisition!
I’m really excited to try out the new Ingenieur in black ceramic. It looks like an outstanding everyday watch – sporty, sleek, and super wearable. Your piece looks fantastic, by the way – the ceramic finish and case proportions seem spot on. I’m also curi...
