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well, that wouldn't make much sense, IMO...

 

Hi Don,
I'm sure it would be hard to find a real b/w truth here, but my impressions are more along the line of what Alex wrote above.
There were very few Geneva based movement suppliers - the large majority of movement blanks (ebauches) were supplied from the VdJ .
The Geneva seal rules don't limit this supply from outside Geneva in any way - so this wouldn't help the Geneva based movemet producers at all....

I believe the Geneva seal  was a protective measure - but mainly because the original movement producers of the VdJ started to realize,
that a cased movement (i.e. a complete watch) makes up for a mutch better profit than selling ebauches only. 

As a side note - that's also the reason you'll find an impressive amount of case makers in Geneva - by far with larger capacities than movement production
ever has been (in Geneva). It's very simple - because movements (the much more labour intensive part in the past) were always bought in from the VdJ where man hours were
much cheaper in the past, especially in winter time.

best regards
Suitbert

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18 Comments view entire thread 

A quick question on Dufour and Ferrier

 
By: Wees : May 19th, 2011-08:32
Bernard's latest post has reminded me to ask a question - who manufactures the base movement/plates for the Dufour Simplicity? Does anyone know if the same company supplies base movement/plates for the Ferrier double spiral tourbillion?

No real knowledge, just...

 
By: DonCorson : May 19th, 2011-13:04
suspicions so I won't spread them. But in general there is not a lot of love between the companies in the Vallée de Joux and those in Geneva. (the Geneva Seal was initially made to marginalise the companies in the Vallée) There are many candidate companie... 

Interesting minutia

 
By: Mostel : May 19th, 2011-15:17
who knew of these obscure rivalries?? Thanks Don.

Thanks. I was under the impression that

 
By: ArthurSG : May 19th, 2011-17:37
Dufour made his entire movement in-house base up. Doesn;t detract from his great finishing though.

dufour has concieved his movement fully inhouse but since

 
By: alex : May 19th, 2011-19:10
He doesn't have a CNC machine he has someone cut the plates and bridges for him

I thoguht he got a "hint" from JLC Cal. 478....

 
By: KIH : May 21st, 2011-05:10
... just heard from someone who asked the question and the answer from Mr. D was "yes". If I am wrong, I am sorry in advance, but I am pretty sure that I heard it right - but still I didn't hear it directly from the man..... Having said that, everyone get... 

I beg to differ Don

 
By: alex : May 19th, 2011-19:14
The Geneva seal was not made to aleniate the makers from the Vallée who had been supplying movement blanks to the Genevan houses for years but rather to fight cheeper counterfeits with Geneve on the dial as a sales pitch but which were not made in Geneva

Well... AP told the story differently at a recent SSC conference [nt]

 
By: DonCorson : May 20th, 2011-05:37
and along the lines that the Geneva movement makers were complaining that most of the high end movements sold by Geneven watch companies were actually made in the VdJ. So to protect themselves they invented the Geneva Seal. Don This message has been edite... 

well, that wouldn't make much sense, IMO...

 
By: SuitbertW : May 20th, 2011-07:54
Hi Don, I'm sure it would be hard to find a real b/w truth here, but my impressions are more along the line of what Alex wrote above. There were very few Geneva based movement suppliers - the large majority of movement blanks (ebauches) were supplied from... 

Thanks

 
By: Wees : May 20th, 2011-09:34
Thanks everyone for your informative responses. Lots of background information here - actually quite interesting. I wonder if the movement blank manufacturers for Dufour or Ferrier leave a little mark of their own, like the stonemasons used to leave a bit... 

Dufour sourcing blanks?!

 
By: Ancienne Le Brassus : May 21st, 2011-13:40
Hi guys, Sorry but one DOES NOT need a CNC to manufacture a blank. One can perfectly well make all the plates etc, buy having a few lathes properly calibrated for milling, drilling, etc. Don's work is the most direct proof of this ! I was under the impres... 

"movement blank"

 
By: Wees : May 21st, 2011-21:28
Sorry, "movement blank" manufacturer is probably too wide or insufficiently nuanced a phrase to use. From what I understand, it is not anywhere near the same scenario as, say, a brand having base movements manufactured by a third party ebauche manufacture... 

Hello, Sebastian,.

 
By: SuitbertW : May 22nd, 2011-04:18
...I've been in Ph. Dufour's workshop only one time and spoken tohim only on two occasions briefly - so you might know a lot more ? But to my knowledge his plates and bridges are custom ordered and supplied by a (certainly first rate) specialist. This is ... 

he could use lathes and milling machines inhouse BUT

 
By: alex : May 22nd, 2011-07:46
He would be making 2 Simplicities a year at that rate. Dufour doesn't hide the fact that he has the components cut and milled by a specialist but cutting components isn't a big deal, its the hand work that has value.

Thanks for correcting my views

 
By: Ancienne Le Brassus : May 22nd, 2011-20:39
Guys, Thanks for correcting my information- I appreciate it, and sorry for sounding like an ass in my first post- i just reread it and I apologize for sounding so preachy. Could there have been a change in production methods between the first 100 and seco... 

thanks

 
By: Ancienne Le Brassus : May 23rd, 2011-20:51
then I was completely mistaken- thank you for this info! HAGW, S

i agree ...

 
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