pplater
5432
A vexed question, indeed...
The GF is certainly an extreme example! It is difficult to know how to compare 'like with like', though, when comparing Independent watches to mainstream brands; for example, the JLC watches which took the first two places in the chronometry competition of 2009 were the Master Tourbillon and the Reverso Gyrotourbillon 2 - neither a 'cheap' watch by any measure (although still comparative bargains compared to similar offerings from other haute horlogerie houses).
Take the Observatoire: what watch from Patek, VC or AP would you say is on a par with the Observatoire? Price cannot be the only guide: Kari can and must exact a premium for low volume and labour intensity for what is, after all, a time only watch. Do you match it against a time-only Calatrava, a Patrimony or a Jules Audemar? Each is an 'entry level' piece. Or do you match it against the more complicated watches that similar money might buy (and which, presumably, receive more attention in the workshop as a consequence)?
It will be interesting to see how others respond to your thoughtful question.
Cheers,
pplater.
Independents v Large companies
I realise that independent watchmakers give the market a different alternative and a lot of their movements and finishing are arguably superior to that of mainstream watch manufacturers. However, in the areas of accuracy, long term reliability and service...
By way of example...
A production sample of the Greubel Forsey Double Tourbillon Technique cal. GF02s won first prize in the 2011 International Competition Chronométrie, scoring 915 points out of a possible 1000 points after weeks of rigorous Observatory and COSC style testin...
I agree with you
The watches that you mentioned are indeed amazing timepieces but they are at a price bracket not within the reach of the majority of watch enthusiasts. If one were to compare like with like (or almost like with like) in terms of pricing, how well would a ...
A vexed question, indeed...
The GF is certainly an extreme example! It is difficult to know how to compare 'like with like', though, when comparing Independent watches to mainstream brands; for example, the JLC watches which took the first two places in the chronometry competition o...
For the sake of completeness...
...an example of Kari's achievement with the P260: Cheers, pplater. ...
Thank you
Thank you for the information and I have always been in awe of Kari Voutilainen. He does not only make beautiful watches but his attention to detail and accuracy is second to none. His watches are in a different plain even compared to the best independent...
How about considering Habring?
They offer reasonable pricing, fantastic service before, during and after the sale, are great people, offer tremendous flexibility in creating the piece you want, and the pieces are great fun to wear. I am not saying the finish is like a Lange or KV, but ...
Thanks Joe
Lovely photo of a lovely watch. I will certainly look into Habring as it seems to satisfy the necessary criteria. Much appreciated. Sham
Truly inspiring rate results...
Thanks for posting the rate results...truly inspiring. :) Cheers, Brandon
Interesting question...
The real question is what are your criteria. I think all of the idependents produce watches with above average timekeeping qualities. That is somehow a minimum for a watch, but what do you require more? If the timekeeping is the only criteria then one cou...
Thank you Don
Personally, accuracy (+3 -2 seconds daily) and long term reliability with good after sales service are important to me but I also value craftsman ship and exclusitivity (yes I know, I want it all!:-)) so perhaps a Tissot may not make the grade. A Voutilai...
Accuracy - Reliability - Servicing
Well, Sham this is a natural question to ask. I've been holding, discussing and reading a lot about independent brands and this is what I came up to. Accuracy . From what I saw in traditional brands and Independents, all reach the same accuracy (more or l...
Thank you very much Mark
You have answered all my concerns thoroughly. Much obliged. With your info, I will be a lot more confident now buying from an independent!:-) Thanks again. Sham
One thing I would add...
One thing I would add is if you are getting a very basic watch in terms of function, but superbly crafted, with basic materials, I don't think you will have trouble finding watchmakers to service your watch.
Grand Seiko...
Completely Independent Company manufacturing everything in-house, very low production numbers (in the hundreds after all these years making them very very exclusive) on their VFA (Very Finely Adjusted) from 1968-72 and then later Specially Adjusted marked...
Thank you Salman
I have actually been looking into Credor watches which are only sold in Japan unfortunately but apparently are even more exclusive and better made than the legendary Grand Seiko. Thanks for the suggestion though. Sham
It depends what you are on the market for,personally accuracy ...
doesn t even come to mind when talking about indies. Independents(some) are a state of mind,they are what you strive for when you look for something"extra" that accurate major brands will never achieve. Accuracy has to be good enough but never the only cr...
"Independents are a state of mind"...
Yes!!!! Yes, yes, yes! Thank you, Mo, for capturing in four word poesy what the rest of us struggle to capture in whole essays! All the best, Cheers, pplater.
Thank you Mo and pplatter
for your views which I am sure are shared by many fans of the independents brands. I totally agree that one should not focus entirely on accuracy and reliability or else a Seiko Astron would wind hands down. However, my point was that the beauty of the mo...
Agree with Don and Moc
I understand what you are asking, comparing accuracy, reliability, and after service. But at the same time, like Don and Moc says, if those are the criteria, then maybe one is not ready for indies. It's not to say Indies are not accurate, or reliable, rat...
Thanks Tom
Your views are appreciated. I am generally not a risk taker in anything I do so perhaps that sums up the type of watches I should be focusing on. But of course there are different types indies and some do offer the accuracy and reliability of the larger m...
Wearers of AHCI aren't average users, so the performance isn't average either
Therein lies our problem. For reliability, yes you should buy an ETA movement-powered-watch, or a Rolex. Or a Grand Seiko which is not independent but is boutique in a way. But I would hazard a guess that anyone buying a watch from the makers discussed in...