Its so much more complicated...

I own several Journes and I'm waiting on my first KV.

I too have had my reliability issues with FPJ's watches, but mostly they have run just fine. And they get a lot of wear on my wrist. I do not pamper them.

FPJ is having some growing pains. I've detailed my issues with them elsewhere in these forums and I won't rehearse them again. But I do think the transition from craftsman to fashion icon is fraught with perils. And FPJ is going through that. I think FPJ the man continues to emphasize incredible innovation and beautiful design, the "warmth" of the old world approach that I would guess many Purists find appealing. And yet the company seems to prefer the "coolness" of being a fashion house, with premiers and "boutiques" staffed with.... well, I'll stop there. But on the other hand, that "avant garde" part of FPJ's character, part of that "coolness," has delivered some absolutely stunning design work (and we've seen with other brands how easy it is to slip from the sublime to the ridiculous on the design front, making FPJ's achievement all the more remarkable). The FPJ designs manage to be not only arresting and beautifully harmonious but always are rooted in a deep understanding of the grand traditions of horology. Obviously I've voted with my feet so to speak and I'm greatly looking forward to joining the KV ranks, but I'll always appreciate the stunning beauty and the incredible design fluency of my Octa Lune and Chronometer Souveraine.

ww

Voutilainen....

By: MiniCooper : March 8th, 2011-10:52

Up until a year ago, I did not know this watchmaker... A Purist friend told me of him during an event an sparked my interest.... I have seen a few posts here and photos do show evidence of high watch making... Hover, I would appreciate if owners/connaisse...

I think a quick search of the forum

By: asg : March 8th, 2011-12:49

Should result in many posts of purists drooling on their keyboards. I have comissioned three watches from Kari to date. He is just fantastic to work with., My last post was about getting new dials made for my chronograph. Kari is a gem - Kari is a man of ...

Thank you....

By: MiniCooper : March 10th, 2011-02:29

I will search the forum... again.

Welcome to this other world...

By: patrick_y : March 8th, 2011-19:21

Wait until you see a Voutilainen piece in person, particularly his Observatoire model which is a beautifully finished watch that was almost entirely made by one individual. Then, as you delve deeper into the world of AHCI and Independents, you'll discover...

I appreciate....

By: MiniCooper : March 10th, 2011-02:39

taking the time to respond to my post... the problem with Independents is that it is rather difficult to see one of their creations in metal.... Interesting comparison with Boutique wines... I wonder how Voutilainen compare specifically with FP Journe... ...

Since you asked for an Opinion, Voutilainen is better than Journe

By: MTF : March 10th, 2011-13:06

pinkpanther, Since you asked for an opinion, I will grasp the nettle and give one -- mine. I rarely make public statements as there is no 'PuristS' right and wrong for opinions. Objectively, one has to make a judgement based on what emotions that a Voutil...

Many thanks MTF....

By: MiniCooper : March 10th, 2011-14:34

Rare, bold and bald statements enrich our community... Besides if we all agreed in everything there would be no discussions... Interesting.... I really like Journe watches so your opinion regarding Kari's watches intrigues me even more.... Thanks again......

MTF! I gotta call you out on this one

By: justindependent : March 10th, 2011-19:26

Not that I necessary agree or disagree, but would like a better reference point than Journe vs Voutilainen. I have both btw. How it grips you emotionally or how long you can stay fascinated by them, only you can decide. BUT, when you say flaw after flaw, ...

Rebuttal

By: MTF : March 10th, 2011-20:44

justindependent, pinkpanther asked specifically: "I wonder how Voutilainen compare specifically with FP Journe..." My opinion specifically made a binary choice between the two watch brands and the One was assigned to Voutilainen whilst the Zero was assign...

Thanks MTF.

By: justindependent : March 11th, 2011-01:47

Hi MTF, if we all didnt know it, you clearly know your stuff! I was not trying to say that you were not being fair to Journe in this case (anyway I hope you did not take it this way! ) I actually just wanted to extend the discussion and see your thoughts ...

Its so much more complicated...

By: wwinkel : March 12th, 2011-06:58

Interesting......

By: MiniCooper : March 13th, 2011-12:07

and the clarification adds to the discussion.... I would like though to add that I wanted a comparison not only is aesthetics and finishing but also performance and function ( my fault as I did not write that explicitly).... Now, for Carslberg being proba...

Dufour corrections

By: ThomasM : March 10th, 2011-02:45

Hi, Patrick, Mr. Dufour never claimed, and did not (and still does not, as far as I know) make his own gears, he bought them from a gear specialist (who thought he was crazy, the standards he wanted, but nonetheless, the gears were outsourced, then finish...

Ahh, my mistake...

By: patrick_y : March 10th, 2011-09:02

Thank you TM for providing us with a more current and accurate account of the Philippe Dufour workshops.

Also....

By: asg : March 10th, 2011-10:13

While Kari's shop is "small" - He most certainly is not a one man show. Kari has a team of extremely talented and capable staff to assist with various functions. Kari is very much and actively involved with his watches and the watchmaking that goes on und...

Thank you for the clarifications...

By: patrick_y : March 10th, 2011-16:09

I wasn't certain of how large Kari's staff was but I was lead to believe it was quite small (I imagined less than half a dozen individuals), apparently that is no longer the case. Thank you for the clarification. Also agree with you that Voutilainen and J...

My recollection

By: Gary G : March 11th, 2011-03:26

...from our recent visits is that Kari has a staff of 11 (including watchmakers and finishers) and Dufour has a staff of 1 (recently hired from PSM). We had a chance to visit the FPJ factory as well on our trip, and I have to say that I was quite impresse...