AndrewD
[HoMe Moderator]
12829
Some comments ...
Hi Melvyn,
I wish I knew where the truth lay in all this. As you know, I like F.P.Journe time pieces and for years I have read all I could and asked questions of owners whenever the opportunity arose. My impression is that there were several specific problems with certain models that Journe worked hard to remedy. Sometimes this took a while, as with the Zodiac. And the factory communicated well with clients. The oxidized dials were from an early batch. There is a stabilization treatment available if required. If you have an early dial and it hasn't oxidized, then it is not going to now. [As an aside, I wonder if in 40 years these early dials will be as desirable as some patinated, chocolate, spiderwebbed Rolex or Omega dials.] Loose screws clearly indicate lack of attention to detail and quality control, but yours is the only anecdote I have heard on this point. How did the Factory respond and address this issue? Have you heard of this problem from other owners?
Pleasingly I have never heard a specific complaint about communication and I must say that my own Octa RdM is in for service (it's 8 years old and in need of one, but the bearings in the automatic rotor have also worn out, a recognised weakness in the original Cal. 1300 and improved in subsequent iterations) and the Factory has been superb in letting me know what was required, how long it would take, and how my watch was progressing through the service steps. Even to the point of giving me an expected return date 2 months in advance. This is far better than my 'black hole' experience of sending watches to JLC and Breguet.
In relation to Hororgasm's question, my impression is that the Tourbillon Souveraine movement is pretty well sorted, as is the Resonance, after a very long development period. There were very few changes required to the movement when it changed from the Cal. 1498 to the 1403, and there have been no changes to the 1403 in the last 7 years.
It is an impossibility to expect companies to provide specific data on service requirements. I have heard it estimated that the Journe service centre has a couple of hundred watches in service at any one time, and that would represent about 2% of watches delivered. Given routine service requirements after 3-5 years, that sounds like an acceptable number of watches to me.
I will report back on my specific service experiences with the RdM when it is complete.
Regards
Andrew
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What's your favourite F.P.Journe tourbillon?
Hi Journe lovers (I know there are a few of you), Can I ask that eternal question about which Tourbillon Souveraine you prefer and why? The original Remontoir (Cal. 1498; 1999-2003) or the Dead Seconds (Cal. 1403; 2004-current)? Fortunately there are no r...
Hard choice!
I think they're both gorgeous, and I'd love to have either in my collection (day dreaming)... But if you ask me to pick just one Andrew, I'd go for the Dead Seconds, purely for aesthetic reasons. I like the way all 3 subdials have a symmetric Journe frame...
Symmetry
Thanks Sidney, There are many differences between these watches, but the symmetry of the Dead Seconds versus the asymmetry of the Original Remontoir is an obvious and important distinction. I think some people are drawn to symmetrical dials more than othe...
You missed one
If those are version 1 (remontoir) and version 2 (dead seconds) you forgot the nearly-mythical version 0: I actually prefer version 1 to 2 or 0, but that is only because the dial of ver.0 reminds me too much of the Breguet La Tradition, a problem not seen...
It doesn't bother me because ...
... the Breguet would be booted out the door as soon as 'Version 0' arrived. I am usually more faithful than that, but there are limits! There is an industrial rawness in that piece that is palpable. And combined with the subsequent history of the company...
More to salivate over ...
Hi Arthur, I did a post with all the collected images of the prototypes in the Journe Forum last year, but it is locked away. So here are just a few from an old HoMe thread. Click here . A
This is what Aaron is calling "O" and it is ...
... the prototype tourbillon with remontior that F.P.Journe built in 1991. Others may have more information, but I am unaware that the exact number built has even been 'published'. Legend has it that there was little interest initially, but Mr Journe pers...
The number that I heard
was 3, but I don't remember the source. I also don't know if that is 3, including the one kept by M. Journe, or 3 and his, making 4 in total A
The Hour/Min dial
it has the same hands and similar engine work to the dial on the Breguet A
Platinum Dead Seconds...
I like platinum and I like the dead seconds. This is one of the very few tourbillons I like with the tourbillon visible from the watch dial. I normally only like tourbillons with hidden tourbillons.
My fav FP Journe tourbillon is one that works!
I would like a FP Journe Tourbillon watch that: 1) Does not have loose mainplate screws when brand new from the 'factory'. 2) Has a non-oxidising dial. 3) Works! All being said, they still look good as small metal sculptures. Regards, MTF
may i humbly enquire
in your opinion, IF one can claim/believe/expereince FPJ watches as unreliable, even shoddy work(guys i said if and added lotsa of cavaets), would you agree that amongst all his complications, the tourby is most reliable, or put it the other way, the tour...
Completely agree that the FP Journe tourbillons
have the 'least' problems.....at least, in my limited personal experience. Hey! The Titanic had a flawed history but was still a great technical and aesthetic advance in the nautical world ................ I repeat: FP Journe watches are great to look at....
Some comments ...
Hi Melvyn, I wish I knew where the truth lay in all this. As you know, I like F.P.Journe time pieces and for years I have read all I could and asked questions of owners whenever the opportunity arose. My impression is that there were several specific prob...
Thks for clarifying
I am working on a deal now, will revert. As for servicing, mine went back to fix the date disc issue via the AD, so I have no contact with FPJ servicing section. After collecting the watch, I did however need to go to their website and register, and they ...
Wow........
you seem to really not like FP Journe.... Did you have a bad experience? Thanks Cheers
The opposite is true.
We were 'blinded by love' and did not complaint in public for years....... The current Mrs MTF and I had almost every model below the Grand et Petit Sonnerie. With the exception of one watch, all of them needed to go back to the factory with the usual pro...
Yes, I recall some of these u said
You are definitely the right person for some of these questions. May I ask if the servicing is expensive in your opinion, relative to the complications involved and to other brands? Best, Horo
I cannot comment
on the specific price of after sales service. Its all relative: A $150k watch costing $2k to service may be "reasonable" but a $3000 Rolex costing $300 to service may be a lower absolute cost but higher proportion of the sales price. MTF This message has ...
For me.....
Dead Seconds.... I prefer the symmetry.... I also prefer hidden tourbillons, but this one, which I have seen in metal, is stunning.... Cheers
It's the DS for me, an AD showed me a piece
and I feel it's the best journe tourby for me
such coincidence!!
i was just discussing this with a good friend on tuesday!! i have seen and felt v2 in the flesh, but not v1. v0 - horological historic significance, but i am not a mature enough collector to appreciate it. v1 - brass movement? arguably more collectable......
My New Year resolution for 2011 ...
... is to make sure you give the Manufacture the opportunity to remedy the Octa RdM date problem. Only then can you put the demons to rest! I assume you can send it in through a local AD in Singapore? I had to hop a plane all the way to the HK Boutique fo...
2 things
Firstly, I might choose actually NOT to repair it.....I have grown, prob from rubbishing it, to tolerate it, and even though I don't wear it, I now actually use it as a conversation piece!!! And Ilove to demo how the date disc jumps!! Secondly, the 911 u ...
There is not much in the watchbox that would be spared....
...if a 'version 0' FPJ tourbillon were to be offered up in trade. Historical significance to one side, it oozes 'Deus ex machina'. But tell us, Andrew, which one for you? Why? Cheers, pplater.
You go first ...
... it's my thread. ;-) But I promise to tell you. And I have been agonizing over this question since 2004! Luckily, as I said, there is no wrong answer. Andrew
Remontoir d’Egalité ...
would be my choice, but that is a very close decision Decision is based on aesthetics, only. Oliver
The original version BUT....
It has to be specifically with the sparkling champagne dial with the silvery sub dial. This version may oxidise but I see it more of a beauty. It's the early creation and it just oozed a very organic feel that I'm so in love with. It is also one piece tha...
While all iterations have their charms...
...I think ultimately I'd go with the Dead Seconds. The dial layout is the most pleasing and balanced of the choices IMO. I like the treatment of the rehaut rings, screws, and movement on that model. Also, the dead seconds complication is one of my favori...
I quite agree, except that
I have a very personal problem with jumping seconds, dead or not. They remind me too much of quartz watches. There was a period in my life when I was marginally involved in radio broadcasting and more through its reception on short-wave radio. Then the se...
Think of them as mimicking ...
... original pendulum clocks, ticking off the seconds at one Hertz. Tell yourself that it has nothing to do with disgusting soul-less quartz technology. LOL Then consider the history of the DS display, particularly in Asia in the 19th Century. And as othe...
if that's the case it is understandable that you do not like the DS
but don't you think it is an interesting (or at least worthwhile to ponder) statement that the watch makes here? After all we ARE discretizing time with watches (Marcus Handke had some great remarks about this when discussing the UN Perpetual vis a vis th...
Totally agree with you Andreas!
I like your very clever idea of the quartz-like seconds and then "oh wait it's a tourbillon"
Hacking tourbillon
I neglected to comment on the second part of your answer. I completely agree that a watch that has so many nods to chronometry (Tourbillon, remontoir, dead second) would benefit from a hacking seconds. It would be the icing on the cake, and perhaps someth...
Hi, Amerix!
I can certainly appreciate where you are coming from regarding your dislike of the dead seconds, and how its movement around the dial hearkens back to the predominantly quartz-era of timepieces (nothing wrong with liking quartz watches, of course), but I ...
A personal pleasure ...
I guess it's rather like a concealed Tourbillon in a Laurent Ferrier - a hidden and personal pleasure with a reminder on the front of what beats beneath. You don't need "Tourbillon" (ie. "Dead Seconds") written on the dial because you have a reminder ever...
I'll be sure to bring the Habring2 to Vegas...
...so folks who want to see it can examine the watch! Cheers, Daos
0 2 1
The Prototype oozes Steampunk awesomeness. If it is unavailable, I would go for the DS because I think the dead seconds is a nice philosophical addition to the watch which then has perpetual motion AND the discrete steps of measured time. I will be very g...
This one Andrew without any doubt !
Shall I explain why ? A true Vintage Journe ! Fr.Xavier...
So Victorian steam punk, and the definitive Journe
Originally my favorite, but as a ownership proposition, I choose the DS. Best, Horo
Any idea what the 16/93 refers to?
Manufactured in 1993? But there can't have been 16 of them that year. Whatever else you can tell us about the watch would be appreciated. Thanks for the image! Andrew
For me it means that...
it is the 16th tourbillon made and it was finished in 1993. When I meet Journe, I will ask him. The watch belongs to one of the first Journe's clients. The first Journe watches were sold at the Pendulerie, a famous clocks shop in Paris. The boutique was n...
For me that will depend which Journe I had in my collection
Version 1 if I have some of his modern piece ie centigraph, octa lune, etc Version 2 if I have some of his early piece ie resonance, rdm etc Finally version 0 if I just wanna own a piece of history. This is an important piece as it marry 3 significant fac...
Always an important consideration ...
... and thanks for bringing it up. What other watches are in the collection, and how a new piece 'fits' into that. I was concentrating on the merits of the specific watch itself, but of course there are other considerations. We lost the YG dial when Journ...
Pt. case YG Dial with Brass mvnt no doubt
Controversial material combination from a controversial watchmaker. I love that part of story about the resonance. Best Tyler
My preference
This was extremely difficult. I have vacillated between the two (version 1 and 2) since the DS was introduced in early 2004. But my pick is the DS, primarily because of the contrast and tension between the 'ticking' seconds hand and the 'continuously' mov...
My favorite FP Journe tourbillon was the one I had which I consider the best combo
The original rose gold dial that developed oxidation over time & platinum 38mm case w/ brass movement. My pictures below clearly shows the oxidation that took place. I don't know how FP Journe servicing is today, but it took either 5 or 6 months to get my...
Journe service
Thanks Anthony, Always nice to see this old lady. Can I enquire about your experience with the oxidation? How long did it take to develop? What was Journe's solution? Did they swap out the dial or try to treat it in some way? [I understand that there is a...
I never had a problem with the oxidation since it didn't bother me
and I liked the patina of the dial that developed, so I didn't mention anything about oxidation when I sent in the watch for warranty repair. Something was wrong with the movement (I forgot what needed to be fixed w/ the movement) so that's why it went ba...
I fully agree....
The Centigraphe is very intriguing indeed.... I wonder if any Purist owns one and his views/experiences with it... (unfortunately the threads on the Journe forum are no longer available) Thanks Cheers
A fascinating thread to read...................
It was great to be able to see all three versions on the same thread and to see how from version 0 to the current model, the watch has changed, (I was going to use the word progressed, but I'm not sure whether that is strictly true?) But to see version 0 ...
Please report back on your experience
Hi Topcat, Let us know what you find in the Boutique. I gather that no photography is allowed, but many have found the Journe Boutiques to be a lovely 'boutique experience'. Very welcoming, reverential to the watches, and more importantly to the horologic...
True.....
No photography is allowed.... However, the staff is very welcoming and it is a wonderful experience... Makes you want to go back... Cheers
VB2 has remontoir???
Hi Andrew, you mention that the VB2 has remontoir. May I ask if that's a definite yes? The last time I ask, the watch has no constant force feature unlike the Zeitwerk which has remontoir. Maybe I got th ewrong info but would be happy to know that VB2 has...
I believe so, but little detail ...
Hi John, If you have a look at the FPJ website under the "Technical Description" for the Vagabondage II it states: "1 minute constant force device. Patented EP 1528443." I have gone searching in the European Patents Office site for this, but can't find it...
that's fascinating....Great to know.
Surprise that it is not widely publicize. This make the watch special, at least to me Thank you. *CL