Here is a different view

Apr 29, 2019,10:19 AM
 

There is quite a bit to unpack there. Also, so much room for interpretation—I think in the end—the buyer will have to make up their own mind—as it should be. The arguments put forth below, are not to argue that Lange is “better” but just to offer the counter argument to what was said above—which I think is at the very least highly debatable. And as such---here is the debate offered in goodwill to further the discussion.
First, seems like a large portion of comments are not particular to Lange and in fact probably even more true for Patek and Rolex.

For example, you say Lange is overhyped and needs to wake up and stop making multiple watches with minimal changes. Seems difficult to say if your benchmark is Rolex and Patek. Are they not the co-kings of doing just that—making endless varieties of watches with the same case or movement. For case design, take the Nautilus, Aquanaut, Calatrava, President, Submariner, Sea Dweller, GMT etc etc. For movement, for Patek, the large rotor automatic movement is used throughout the entire range in sports and non-sports models directly and as a base for more complications. Same for the perpetual micro-rotor movement. Same for the manual wind movement in the calatrava 5196 (and other watches) which would still fit in a watch from decades ago with a significantly smaller case size. Not necessarily a bad thing---but contrasted against Lange—not sure you really have a case that Lange uses “the same old movements” or makes minimal changes. Especially considering how many watches Patek and Rolex make. In fact, I would argue it is amazing how much movement variety Lange has given the low production numbers (I would say the same for Journe as well). 

Second, there are a big portion that are anecdotal.
On reliability. What you (or I here) is certainly something short of any kind of real statistical sample.
Exclusivity. You are just saying there are lots of Lange watches for sale. Again, not sure your sample is really scientific. There are a ton of VCs for sale right? Ton of Patek’s for sale right? Not the steel sport watches—but those are not apple to apple comparisons to what Lange offers.
Regarding Rolex being perfect, that is a bit anecdotal as well. You can find plenty of examples of Patek and Rolex having their fair share of problems. Like the watchfinder video about the wrong number glued on to a explorer. Or example of consumers with defects in their Patek pieces straight from the factory—I myself experienced the well-known sticky date problem with Patek on an aquanaut. Bottom line—neither of us have enough statistical information to make a well informed comparison.

Third there are some questionable claims. Not that you are wrong—just that there is plenty of space to disagree.
Finish: You say they are only finished well because it is easy to finish German Silver. The counter argument to that is that has nothing to do with why Lange chooses German Silver—it is tradition. In addition, very few would argue Patek’s are finished better than a Lange and nobody would argue Rolex is finished better. As far as Vacheron, only some of the pieces have the Genève seal so that speaks for itself in terms of finishing across the range. I don’t necessarily think this is bad overall as it gives buyers access at different price points—but it is a finishing difference. Lange is known for the same finishing all the way up and down the line.
You say when Lange was independent it was more solid. I think many would certainly beg to differ that an East German watch company under communism was producing better pieces than they are today.
Taking a licking and keep on ticking comments: Again Lange is not in that market sports watch market—so not sure it is apples to apples. Further, Rolex has been producing watches that take pressure for a very very long time. Not sure that is a new innovation really is it? If anything, Rolex is quite late to the ceramic game compared to other manufacturers which are making cases and bracelets out of the material. The multi-color bezel is unique to Rolex as far as I know. I think those arguing Lange is innovative would point to:
Tripple Split
Zeitwork
Annual Calendar with one button advancement of functions
Annual Calendar (saxonia calendar) with zero reset, big date and very thin compared to any Patek annual calendars.
Datograph, big date, split seconds unbelievably finished movement with chatons
Lange 1 Moonphase with day night---it is pretty innovative compared to Patek’s moon phases which are nice—but have not changed in decades
There are many more—but these are just off hand.

This is not to say that Rolex does not produce a fantastic watch—they do! However, it is a very different beast than a Lange. They are mass produced rock solid good looking watches. That is not Lange at all. Patek also makes a fantastic watch. However, it is on a different planet production number wise. There are simply not enough watchmakers around to allow them to dedicate the time to each watch at those production levels.  I would put the non-complicated and normal complicated models sort of in between Lange and Rolex. When it comes to the very complicated pieces—I think that is where Patek really shows its stuff. For example their split seconds chrono with the thin case---impressive. Same with the minute repeaters—definitely the best our there IMHO.

Anyway—I hope the above at least provides a different perspective.


More posts: aquanautcalatravaDatographLange 1Lange 1 MoonphasenautilusSaxoniaSea Dweller

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Lange Monday.

 
 By: uaewatchguy : April 29th, 2019-00:04
Watch world is messed up. Such an under appreciated is chasing the hype of steel patek nautilus and Rolex and paying crazy money for these are paying almost $100K for the 5980A if you add another $10k you can get a new Zeitwerk and a platinum Datograph ...  

I very much agree!

 
 By: David_S : April 29th, 2019-00:18
But please, I hope Lange continues to be under appreciated ! I have two and no intention to sell . Also congrats on the Zeitwerk, a truly amazing watch! Have you seen the new Z Date? It may very well be my next purchase...

I agree with David_S

 
 By: dedestexhes : April 29th, 2019-00:37
I hope they will stay as is. And if you don't sell your watches, who cares? In the long run, I have not one Lange watch which lost on it's initial purchase value.... again pure hypothetical as none will be sold So let's enjoy the quality of watches instea... 

Btw, great watch! [nt]

 
 By: dedestexhes : April 29th, 2019-00:38

Watch market has never been so polarised

 
 By: Maltie : April 29th, 2019-00:58
To the extent that it doesn’t make any sense anymore. It is a great time to buy beautifully complicated watches from many other brands at unbelievably low prices. The Rolex and Nautilus craziness just keeps going and going, but there is an important sayin... 

Yes but

 
 By: Chromatic Fugue : April 29th, 2019-21:01
Hypes can also make an entire industry and break it as well. In the long run, all of our watches — Langes included — may be 17th century Dutch tulips. Enjoy them nonetheless!

Sadly this is true.

 
 By: watch-er : May 1st, 2019-11:37
The SS mania really covers up the over all weak watch market as is suggested in this thread.

How is Lange overated in your view

 
 By: galt : April 29th, 2019-07:08
Interested to hear you expand on what measure do you think Lange is overrated? Is it finishing, production numbers, innovation, design, heritage or something else? In those categories, which brands do you think exceed Lange?

Well , where to start ???

 
 By: ZSHSZ : April 29th, 2019-08:56
Okay, first , Lange has only two case designs , so no innovation there . The finishing is nice , but the “ German Silver “ is a much softer metal than brass, so it’s much easier to work with ,also because of this softness the movements are not temperature... 

Here is a different view

 
 By: galt : April 29th, 2019-10:19
There is quite a bit to unpack there. Also, so much room for interpretation—I think in the end—the buyer will have to make up their own mind—as it should be. The arguments put forth below, are not to argue that Lange is “better” but just to offer the coun... 

I'm very happy that you commented

 
 By: ZSHSZ : April 29th, 2019-15:30
and expressed your points/perspectives . However I think that some of my points have been misunderstood . What you mentioned as It's not in Lange's tradition, today its more like a weakness . Virtually every brand that plays in the big ligue has to have a... 

Maybe you know something Phillip Dufour doesn't.

 
 By: galt : April 29th, 2019-17:36
I think it is quite an assumption, and one you may want to rethink, that Lange wants to and should compete against Rolex or Patek. They precisely don't want to do that IMHO. As such I also simply don't understand your logic that because a brand does not h... 

Dear Zsolt

 
 By: David_S : May 1st, 2019-02:17
I'm afraid I also have a divergent view and mostly agree with Galt. The problem in your argument is that you are comparing very different animals with different goals and constraints. It's a bit like arguing that BMW or Audi is better than Porsche or Ferr... 

Dear David , I truly appreciate your input and view ,

 
 By: ZSHSZ : May 1st, 2019-06:33
The point I was making in the original post was that when people compare Lange to Patek , I feel that they’re incomparable, because they have different goals, so when someone states that Lange is at the same level as Patek , I feel that they’re wrong , be... 

I'm happy too that we can have an informed and interesting discussion on this.

 
 By: David_S : May 1st, 2019-08:18
Where I still disagree though, is that if you compare Lange on a model to model basis with Patek, they hold their own very well. For example, take the chronos. Datograph vs 5172. The Dato is slightly thicker, but the same diameter. I think one can easily ... 

I feel that in the lover end Lange is “better” in finishing but can’t be compared in accuracy which to me matters a lot .I owned a Dato PT for a couple of years , and wore it daily , now I have a 5170G and I wouldn’t go back for nothing .

 
 By: ZSHSZ : May 1st, 2019-10:05
The Dato was thick , it was wobbling on my wrist and never kept a steady time (all Lange’s are prone to temperature deviation) and the little details like numerals , proportions... the Patek wins in my book . But also you can see a review on HODINKEE, abo... 

I’m curious

 
 By: TheWindingStem : May 1st, 2019-11:08
About this temperature deviation thing.. is it substantiated with actual data or you are basing it on your experience with the Dato you owned? I’ve owned a couple Lange’s and they were by far the most accurate watches I’ve owned at +\- 1 second per day an... 

The temperature deviation thing , is based on me owning nine different Lange models , from L1 to Datograph ,Langenatic Perpetual ...

 
 By: ZSHSZ : May 1st, 2019-12:21
And after experiencing this deviation I approached Alkis, who at the time was in charge of the Lange service center in U.S. He explained me the whole phenomenon . This also was reinforced by the lead watchmaker at Wempe . That’s why you don’t see on the L... 

So I asked around.

 
 By: TheWindingStem : May 16th, 2019-17:41
Regarding your statement that German silver is more prone to temperature change than brass affecting its accuracy. For any horological questions I always reach out to Jack Forster whom I have to credit for his indispensable horological knowledge - Jacks p... 

Under no circumstances question Jacks knowledge and expertise,

 
 By: ZSHSZ : May 16th, 2019-19:19
But he’s just like us a human ... I didn’t bashed Lange in any way I just said that it can’t be compared to Patek because Patek, as a brand is way more superior has more variety and more diversity as Lange . About the accuracy what Jack told it sounds goo... 

I seen where you are coming from

 
 By: galt : May 1st, 2019-10:42
I think I see where you are coming from. Personally I would compare the 5170 to the 1815 Chronograph rather than the Datograph because the Datograph has the big date feature which makes the watch thicker. The 1815 Chrono is actually thinner than the 5170 ... 

Agreed.

 
 By: TheWindingStem : April 29th, 2019-08:00
i think Lange and VC are both under appreciated - VC more so where it’s almost always dismissed. Both brands represent the very best of their respective styles and easily beat the competition. Unfortunately , the hype over PP SS models and professional Ro... 

I agree 1000%.

 
 By: NewEnglandWatch : April 30th, 2019-08:56
Zeitwerk is one of the best!

A good point Iqbal!

 
 By: Langeholic : May 21st, 2019-16:44
Lest we forget that the Nautilus is more than a timepiece. It is a badge of honour, a status symbol. The grey market price is a reflection of increased demand from speculators/status seekers and not collectors per se. There is no logic to the Nautilus’s s... 

Fully agree with you .

 
 By: Watchonthewrists : May 21st, 2019-23:29
I would def go for a ALS all day . Would love to strap one on the wrist in the near future