Chromatic Fugue
1903
Here’s why I’m asking.
The seller — who I trust completely — has confirmed the hands are tritium (he used the black light test). So that’s not the question. Instead, my questions are these.
- First, given that everything is tritium, how likely is it that these are replacement hands? I will ask the seller to send me black light photos, as Bill suggests, but my guess is that black light will reveal differences between the hands and the markers, even if not as much as visible light does. Thus, to judge whether the hands are original, it would also be helpful to know if anyone here has experience with the hands of a vintage sub developing a patina at a different rate from the patina on the markers. If that experience commonly happens in nature, there’s less of a reason to suspect the hands were replaced.
- Second, whether the hands are original or not, how big of a deal is the color difference from a collectability perspective (again on the assumption that the hands are tritium, not luminova).
Again, many thanks for the input. Apologies if my original post was unclear in any respect.
Patina question
Hoping to tap into the collective watch wisdom here. I’m considering the late 1980s 5513 pictured here. As you can see, there’s more patina on the markers than the hands. I’m told that the lume on the hands is in fact tritium. A couple of questions. First...
It does appear that the hands may have been changed during service.
The texture is hard to appreciate on the hands with these pictures. If you have a black light you can test to see how they glow. If they are all of the same temperature and luminosity it could just be nature. Nice looking watch.
Exactly!
The difference in colour is between the tritium (markers) and the lumknova (hands) lume. I'll send you a photo later...
Thanks but
To be clear, I have it on good authority that the hands are tritium and NOT luminova. So if the hands were replaced, it was with other tritium hands.
It can be,
But then, they were not replaced. Below you can see what used to happen to the hands lume from the eighties. I would follow Bill's advice, let's check the luminosity! ...
So if you have it "on good authority" why ask?
What Mary Anny is true: get a black light and check for yourself. No one here needs to convince you of anything.
Here’s why I’m asking.
The seller — who I trust completely — has confirmed the hands are tritium (he used the black light test). So that’s not the question. Instead, my questions are these. - First, given that everything is tritium, how likely is it that these are replacement h...
Well, if you use a blacklight and the colour doesn't match...
The hands are replacements. A backlight is to determine if they are matching. As mentioned, hands with different ages will glow with different luminosity or colour so the advice is correct. Hands that are original can, sometimes, be a different colour tha...
Got it, thanks.
It’s one of the things that matters to me. But so is overall case condition, and the condition here is quite excellent. I’m trying to get a sense of whether, despite the patina issue, this watch should be considered a superlative example of a 5513 of its ...
All of that only matter is you are planning on selling.
If you are buying the watch to wear and enjoy, follow your heart!
I’ve been doing this long enough
to know that I must always build into my purchase decisions the risk I will decide to sell someday, no matter how much I love a watch today.
I call BS
On those hands being tritium. They sure look like Luminova to me. Also, wasn’t tritium use stopped in the 90’s? If they replaced with new hands from that era, the tritium would still not be as white as that after 20 yrs, no?
I’m no expert but
Tritium seems to lume at very different rates depending in part on how much the watch is exposed to light, which explains how you can still find lume from the early 90s that doesn’t have much patina.
This is true.
Also, the hands *may* have also been repainted with tritium. There are people who do this even today.
To me, it would suggest
That the hands were replaced during a service. This happened to me as well after I sent in my 861 Omega Speedmaster Pro in for service. They didn’t change the dial which had tritium but the hands were updated to Luminova. I’ll admit it does bother me a bi...
If you like the watch knock 2k off the price and leave it as is. If you ever sell you can do the same at whatever price level you set to accomodate for the hands..
Matching hands are not always easy to find and tritium hands degrade and will not always match the rate of the dial. If this was a gilt era watch 60's it is even harder to find hands even discounting 3-5k in hopes of finding gilt hands is a risk. On the 5...
Thanks Bill.
I’m new to the vintage sub game so I appreciate your insights. The appeal of this 5513 is that it’s (1) a clean two-liner and (2) unpolished. In those two respects it has an advantage over my existing vintage sub, the 16800 pictured here. But this thread ...
At this point in your collection I agree no need to have doubts or explanations.
Vintage is a little harder to navigate so it can take time as each piece has its character. Your last couple 666 and 16800 are both solid classic work horses and great examples. It is always better to ask questions first then to find out things later but ...
Thanks Bill.
Much appreciated as always. Btw, I ended up keeping the 16800 but not the triple six. Cool watch but didn’t sit right on my wrist.
I think your suspicion is correct.
The hands were likely changed or lume reapplied during service. Is there a record of service? For some this may be a point of contention. For others it isn’t. Collectibility depends on the price. If you’re paying for all original details then I would stay...