Doctor
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Rolex vs. Patek - Business Strategy, Philosophy, Values
You are dead right Patrick that "Rolex has incredible consistency with their watches." so consistent they are nearly devoid of any significant innovations in a half century. And please don't talk to me about Blue Parachrome. I'm talking design. Wow, they made the GMT hand green! Yippee. A step down in my opinion frankly, I wanted red, but I digress.
A business' values and philosophies are about their relationship with their customers (buyers/market, employees, stakeholders). Other than ownership, Rolex treats all their customers like crap!
Values and philosophy are also about a business' definition of who their customer is and the business' understanding of what customers value...which is almost ALL that matters. Not just product consistency as you describe. Don't get me wrong I think the classic face and band design, of say my GMT IIc which is beautiful. But the impression that Rolex makes when some people see it now is far worse in many cases than what BMW degenerated into for a while in the US when they were seen as the show off car of prideful yuppies. Rolexes are seen as show off pieces and many can spot them a mile away. I actually think I lost a client once because I wore one.
To answer your last question...
" One day, you'll find Patek Philippe to be overly popular, worn by a crowd where the vast majority admire it only for its branding and positioning as one of the top brands. More and more are buying it not because of its vir If one day, Patek Philippe was the go-to brand of newly minted millionaires. Will you eschew Patek Philippe at this point?"
(BTW, what's "vir" mean?)
Patek will NEVER become ubiquitous, they are and will always be priced out of the range of 99.X% of Americans and the first world. Rolexes are just within reach of XX% (a double digit market share) and since they send literally thousands of the the type of watch I used to wear to the US every week and Patek sends about 1, the shift you describe is impossible, if for no other reason production capacity.
If you want to talk about company philosophy, goto Rolex web site and quote for me their philosophy and then juxtaposition it against what you can see on the Patek web site. Night...and day!
Since the boom of the early 1980's Rolex's brilliant strategy (for a time) has been to boost their brand by maximizing price to maximize impression, while also selling a maximum number of watches. Only SS Daytonas were held back based on limit. It was temporarily smart price/branding innovation strategy.
As Peter Drucker, the man who coined the phrase "Business Strategy" warned 50 years ago, when a company isn't sensitive to over saturation of the market and when they also lack enough significant innovations, they will eventually cause their death. Rolex is destined to fall.
Rolex owners after WWII were true marketing and product innovators. Former prisoners of war and hero GI's were given free watches which built a brand loyalty that was unsurpassed. The previous models and pricing in the 1940-1975 era allowed for almost any working man to afford entry at a lower level and then walk up the ladder of product to higher priced options like the gold Rolexes.
Now with millions of Rolexes being made every year and tens of millions of copies made every year and still yet hundreds of millions of style imitations made every year, there are literally billions of "Created Rolexish Appearing Pieces", i.e., wrist CRAP out there. That is something they will never survive unless they make design innovations that bring them up into the latter part of the 20th century or better yet the 21st century.
Also when you say: "There is nothing wrong with the watches they make." is also wrong. I could list many problems they have and have had if I had the time, but a few...it took them 50 years to make the hands on Subs, GMTs etc. a bit fatter so you could actually read them if you didn't have your glasses on and you didn't have 20/20 or it was dark. The layout of the minute markers isn't actually accurate, a person who looks through a loop while the second hand passes 12 can see this easily as the minute hand will be spot on with some makings and 5% ahead or 5% behind on others (although Patek has had this problem too on some models) yet many quartzes and even lower end automatics have laser aligned markers precisely aligned throughout the face. My day/date Omega Speedmaster had over 700 markings on the face and they were all spot on.
The biggest Rolex pet peeve I have is that they brag COSC but in the literally 6 dozen plus conversations I've had with Rolex owners of a brand new Rolex, I have never found one who didn't have a piece that gained less than 4 seconds per day and most gained more than 6 seconds per day and thus are off by more than a several minutes a month! This is one of the biggest lie in the watch business. Given that I've always been able to take my Rolexes to my watch maker and void my warrantee and have him true it up to be within a quarter second per day, but at my own risk and only after divorcing my relationship with the company.
Do a Google search on how Rolex treats its employees.
and it goes on and on.
Rolex is going to fall.
Bezels & Crystals & Nicks & Scratches, Mrs. Stern Listen UP!
Kari, in another post of mine you lamented the marks of wear on your 5167 bezel. I'd like to respond and ask all the readers to post a pic of your best scratch and proof of wear yet to be won on your Patek's skin, regardless of which model. I nearly celeb...
Interesting thoughts...
I must admit that I like my watches better with less scratches than with more scratches. The sad thing of both the Aquanaut and Nautilus lines is that the bezels of those watches are real scratch magnets. Just now I am wearing Blancpain Aqua Lung and this...
Have more faith in Mrs. Stern...
Good questions Kari, 1. "why would they produce a bigger number of simple watches when they can also sell the complicated ones?" It's not about the "bigger number" but the the " better " and more innovative of design, and those are key values of Patek, th...
Lucky you!
When Patek is concerned, you are an optimist. I am a pessimist but still love Patek. Anyhow, I hope that you are right and I'm wrong! Best, Kari
Good luck with that...
faith thing... I enjoy talking to AD's and watch repair specialists all over the world - ok maybe not all over but many places in US and EU- and what I heard consistently from objective people is that PP has a great movement, but their cases are terrible,...
Fan-boyism...??
Quoting you: "Bottom line Patek is delivering to the needs and wants of the customer for the sake of getting and keeping customers for generations. They exist to serve us, not us them. " Doctor, I'm concerned, especially with the last sentence in your pos...
Hmmm...
Greetings Patrick. Considering the tone of your posts in this thread, if I didn't see your name attached I might have thought that I wrote them! When did you get so boisterous? LOL Best regards.
Not all of my posts are rosy...
You're probably too familiar with my posts that are very complimentary. While the majority of my posts are of such nature, there are posts that I read that don't elicit such a response. Sometimes I will not respond at all, but if I feel that I can help an...
Ver-boyism...
I like your post Patrick. I could go on and on about PP and Aquanaut shortcomings. the 324 movement has an inconsistent accuracy as compared to at least 6 other movements of which I've owned and tracked the accuracy. The 324 gains and then loses as much a...
wow where do I even start
This is the perfect example of a guy who has drunk his own kool aid. I am a lawyer and I know well the danger of falling for my profession's own BS. Quoted from the OP " What most impresses me about PP Patrick and what I think you are reading into and see...
doctor , just back from swimming 40 lengths
of the local community pool with the nautilus 5711 on the wrist. I couldn't contemplate taking it off whilst i swim and its now got its share of nicks from daily wear.Everyday the bond gets stronger from regular wear. regards darma
I agree...
I basically use my 5167 as a daily wearer. Although I wish it would come back from its regular service (it's been in Stern's care since late January). It has indeed been scratched in my usage and I declined to have the scratches polished out as part of th...
Rolex has no consistent values? Some respectful disagreements.
Regarding this paragraph: " Don't get me wrong I'm sick of Rolex branding and positioning and screaming loud designs and cliched ubiquitousness. Despite owning three, I eschew them now. They just can't behave in public. They are destined for a great fall....
Rolex vs. Patek - Business Strategy, Philosophy, Values
You are dead right Patrick that "Rolex has incredible consistency with their watches." so consistent they are nearly devoid of any significant innovations in a half century. And please don't talk to me about Blue Parachrome. I'm talking design. Wow, they ...
Whilst I share your sentiments about Rolex,
the company won't fail because it's market position is too secure. People who read these posts are passionate about watches but most people don't care and that is why Rolex can't fail, of the available market share Rolex is the brand that the largest shar...
Wrong on many points
First of all, Rolex makes not millions of watches annualy, but "only" cca. 700.000. Second, even Patek's CEO Thierry Stern said in an interview that one of the watch brands he admires is Rolex, for their consistent high quality: "Rolex is another one I re...
Accuracy...Patek vs. Rolex vs. Omega...
You didn't read all of my post. Rolexes have the potential to be one of the most accurate movements made, my last two rolexes literally held to within plus or minus 3 seconds for months, but again I had to be fired as a Rolex customer because I had to vis...