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Of course, 5004 is much more difficult to make
One key reason is the Octopus mechanism which had to be hand built every single time. Then, of course, there is also the perpetual calendar. Last but not least: back in 5004 times demand for these watches was much smaller than it used to be over the last 10 years. This also should result in higher production numbers.
P.S.: If course, I cannot be sure as there are no official numbers. I just base my assumptions on how often certain pieces are traded in the secondary market. That gives you a certain indication - also compared to those pieces for which we know the total production better
Any estimates how many 5370P before it was discontinued?
The fact that it has a black enamel dial is one factor that should have limited the number of 5370Ps that could have been made. Supposedly black enamel is especially hard to make, and enamel is almost a lost art, with only a handful of artisans who are su...
Can do both, but collectors care about rarity
So, I already do enjoy the watch (done). Now for more ... I'm a collector. And to a collector rarity is important. When a watch is discontinued, it analogous to an artist's paintings becoming more desirable after the artist dies. With paintings, it's easi...
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My AD received 3 5370p's (the last one being sold to me). Unfortunately, the current grand comps are over produced. I would estimate that there is anywhere between 300-500 5370p's
I could understand how 300-500 would be possible, except for one thing ...
If it were just the matter of making the split second movement, as hard as it is, I can see Patek churning out 300-500 of them in 5 years. I totally agree with you that the grand comps are over produced, and I feel like Patek is trying to increase product...
Split second no longer that difficult to make
With 5004 they had to hand make every single octopus wheel. With 5370 this is all mimuch easier these days given the new spring mechanism they use now.
Enamel dial of 5370...
... is not a complicated one. No drills into email needed like with early 2526 for example. Just one color. Modern machines. I would not expect the email to be a major production limitation these days.
Agree split not so difficult, but black enamel different
I'm not an expert in enamel, but I read that black is especially difficult. Also, regardless how difficult, if it's a long art with not so many people trained, that limits production.
Way more than 150 pieces
I do not agree, I think perhaps to produce a black enamel dial would take 1-2 weeks max per dial per artisan. I reckon 5370's true total output to be around 1000 pieces. The US alone receives upwards of 100-200 spilt second grande comps a year (they are c...
Many splits, but those other references
As you point out, there are lots of splits and I also feel Patek is now churning them out with the latest in house movements (not like Nouvelle Lemania which required lots of adjustment), but those many splits are spread across lots of other much more pop...
Interestingly I think the movement is the limit on production.
The 5370P is double assembled (rattrapante and above) and is done by the top watchmakers in the high grand complications department. Final assembly and testing is a minimum of 3 months. I deal with 3 UK Patek AD’s with 5 outlets between them and they have...
I was also told approximately 25 - 50 pieces per year.
I don't think there are 300 - 500 pieces of 5370Ps around. It has been estimated during the 15 year official production run of 5004 less than 300 pieces were produced in all metals. Movement was the main limiting factor on 5004 numbers. I am sure Patek ha...
25-50 perr year seems extremely unlikely
Just look ar how many 5004 they could do back then. And 5004 is much more digficult to make and it was made at a time were the demand was much, much lower than today. While I am a big fan of 5004 I would say there are at least 800, maybe 1000 pieces in to...
It was John Reardon who estimated less than 300 pieces of 5004s were produced during the official production run.
One can certainly disagree with his numbers but many believe he is a leading Patek Philippe expert.
Reardon is a great expert indeed
I wish he was right! Would be great news for me as a 5004 fan - but my own estimates are more like 800-1000 5004s.
On the following video John Reardon mentions less than 300 pieces of 5004s were produced.
I am curious how you came up with a figure like 800 - 1000 www.youtube.com
Various reasons...
In the major auction houses approx 125 5004 were traded (dara base based estimate). This would be approx 40% of 300 - so unlikely. 300 in 15 years of production would be 20 per year. The final year they pushed out 50 in steel alone. So again, 300 is unlik...
Is it more difficult to make the 5004? Is demand higher now?
You are making statements without any reference to facts. 15 year life cycle compared to 4 year life cycle. Are there 800-1000 5004’s - figures I’ve seen are much lower? I don’t know. You seem very sure?
Of course, 5004 is much more difficult to make
One key reason is the Octopus mechanism which had to be hand built every single time. Then, of course, there is also the perpetual calendar. Last but not least: back in 5004 times demand for these watches was much smaller than it used to be over the last ...
Production estimate
I would expect about 1000 pieces of this reference. If you look at numbers in resale channels 5370 might be approx where 5004 was in all metals (i.e. 5004 in J, R, G, P approx the same number as 5370).
The video from watch box said this Ref made 12-24 a year
Check the link below , start from 40 seconds.
That number is more like it - 5 * 24 = 120
So, even 24 per year would be 120 over the 5 years, not far from the 150 I was estimating another way. By the way, I had to type in the YouTube URL because cut and paste doesn't work: www.youtube.com
Maybe 5959...
... was produced in smaller numbers (much higher price, less demand maybe due to smaller case size). But even for the 5959 150 pieces would be a very, very small number to assume - should be much higher. Patek is a big company these days and global demand...
Hi Eric, A fun question you posed and a ...
difficult one to answer. The black enamel dial is certainly an attractive feature of this reference as its split seconds. Views are quite wide apart on the production number. A well informed 5370 owner friend recently told me 1,000 All ranges are simply e...